Giacomo 1 

My Basso was a re-paint done by a place called American Beauty Cycles, which I believe was located in Wisconsin. I have no idea who they are or if they still exist, although I don't believe they do, but I'm kind of curious if any of you mid-westerners might have heard of them. Nice work IMHO and the bike gets a lot of compliments -

repechage

Yes.

John E

When I decided to have the 1959 Capo painted, CyclArt was the hometown team, located within 15 miles of my house. I had already met Jim and Susan, seen the shop, and even ridden with them.

They applied a Cat II finish in 2003, using their stock red color, charging a very reasonable $75 add-on for the white head tube panels. I have been delighted with the result, with the small exception that the C in the CAPO downtube graphic is of too modern a font, although it does look nice. Sorry, CyclArt detractors -- I am a fan.

(Also shown are two shots of the Montana-based bike whose color scheme I copied. I suppose I could have fraudulently used them as "before" pictures. )

Oldairhead 

Joe Bell does beautiful work.........if you've got 9 months and buckets of cash! Still, I like what he did for me.

SquidPuppet

If I were in the market for a snazzy new paint job I would contact Tomii Cycles and find out who does his work. The guy's attention to detail (frame building) is breathtaking, and the paint jobs look fantastic.
Houston area.

tomii cycles

Drillium Dude 

That bike still looks fantastic, one of the few fades I really like. Call me crazy, but green and purple work for these eyes.

I think I recognize that bar

DD

mtnbke

Oh BS. I understand that you Drillium Dude had a bad experience with them, but your friends experience wasn't a bad experience. If we were to be intellectually honest, the real way to characterize his complaint was that he took a frame to CycleArt to be repaired/refinished BUT after he dropped it off he changed some of the specs of what he wanted done. What CA didn't tell him and what he didn't glean was that when something is in queue and customers change the order, shops can sometimes put a new PO on the order and it goes to the back of the line. They get to decide their process. Maybe that didn't even happen. Maybe they're so busy because they do such a great job.

Admittedly in your buddies complaint thread he acknowledges how happy he is with the repair work, they had the right tubing to match the Reynolds tubing he wanted replaced, and he loves the paint job. Essentially he was *******ing that when they initially estimated it would take so many weeks it took longer. That's why its called an estimate. Here's the thing. They are running a business, and if they have that much business they by definition are providing a service that many cyclists are demanding. Your friend in his post came across petulant. I wouldn't want him as a customer, and I'd probably never do another frame for him again if I was CA. It sounded like he wanted his hand held every so many days/weeks to talk about the progress of the frame/repair. I get it. He's passionate about about bikes, and repairing this bike. However, just like a custom frame maker, they do NOT want to talk to you about the progress of the bike, your thoughts on doping, your first bike, etc. They LOVE making custom frames but most frame builders hate customers that need their hands held, want to be besties or want the custom frame building process to be a social interaction.

Your friend's expectations sound like a nightmare. It sounds like he wanted a relationship manager to hold his hand and talk about the progress of the repair work and the frame. He wanted top notch work, he got it. His expectation that the time estimate be honored to the very week is wholly unreasonable. If he wanted a priority rush on the bike, he could have paid for that. Also I strongly suspect that charging him $15 for the digital images was CAs way to politely explain that their time is valuable, and if he continued to attempt to consume it he would have to pay market rate. They are running a bicycle repair and restoration business, they are not therapists for people anxious about the frame restoration.

He has a beautiful bike that he loves how it came out. If I was CA I'd never allow him to refinish another frame with them. He's the kind of customer a business doesn't need. Here's my thought, they set expectations that they thought they could have it done in so many weeks. If he was so rigid in his thinking that he doesn't understand that a six week estimate is reasonable if that gets pushed to eleven weeks (due to unforeseen business level balancing), then he had the opportunity to communicate HIS expectation that their six week estimate be interpreted as a DEADLINE. That is exactly what happened with his rigid thinking. Six week estimate, he kept fretting, fussing, complaining in a public forum, all because he interprets an estimate to be a commitment or a deadline.

He loves the frame and their repair work. In my opinion he sounds like a freakin' nightmare from a customer relationship management perspective. In his whole narrative he comes across petulant, and fails to recognize that CycleArt is running a business and their time is valuable. I understand he wanted to be involved in the process. CA didn't execute poor customer service, your friend sounds like a service nightmare and had unreasonable expectations. What CA should have done was properly set the expectation the very first time he called to follow up that the initial estimate was…(wait for it) exactly that just and estimate, because volumes and load balancing are not a perfect science.

They are top drawer, do great work, and he's very happy with it. If he didn't change the initial order and work to be done, didn't need his hand held constantly, I suspect it would have been done faster. However, in the end did he want it done fast or done right? He received a repair that was done right and a restoration that was exactly what he wanted.

What the hell does he have to complain about? That he doesn't comprehend the functional difference between estimate and deadline? An estimate is just a estimate, it isn't a contract or an agreement of a deadline for delivery. So why was he treating the transaction as if they had missed a deadline. Unfreakin' believable. He comes across as just a nightmare customer. If I was CA, I'd have shown him the frame upon restoration, but before clear coat, then taken the frame back removed the new good stays, sandblast the frame down to bare metal, give him his old rusty with holes stays, give him his money back, and tell him to leave and never come back.

So there are different perspectives. Its their business, they do top work. They need to learn they don't need every customer. Good business fire bad customers, and they do it expediently to avoid situations like this. Good businesses don't need bad customers threatening their reputation publicly, they need to identify those customers and terminate them. The second time he called to follow up I'd have stopped work on the bike and asked him to come and pick it up. Life is too short to deal with annoying unreasonable people. He can take his business anywhere. CycleArt needs to learn they can choose to invite their customers to take their business elsewhere. Let the competition deal with the public whining and ranting of unreasonable customers.

Anyone who thinks the Customer is always right, doesn't understand the first thing about Customer Relationship Management, or profitable Customer Service. Every business endeavors to deliver world class customer service, and setting expectations clearly is a part of that. Cycle Art should learn to under promise and over deliver certainly. If they thought it would be done in six weeks they should have communicated twelve. When it was done in eleven his narrative would be of a happy customer.

The lesson here was a fail point of CA to properly set the expectation of completion of work, but even if they reasonably thought their volume and workflow would allow it to be finished in six weeks, they ALSO should have communicated that this was an estimate and that while they anticipated it would take six weeks, it would ALSO take twelve depending on volumes, business needs, and workflow load balancing. Had he had the estimate characterized in the context of it just being an estimate, instead of how he interpreted it as being a deadline, this whole public temper tantrum would never have been put on public display in social media.

I give Kudos to CA for not responding in kind to his posts. They took the high road and let their work speak for itself. The takeaway for me is this. 99% of the people on this forum reading will never have the means to get a CycleArt frame redone. Those that can want top notch work. CycleArt does top drawer work. Are they the best? I'm not representing that they are, however they are amongst the best restoring, refinishing, and repairing frames. They need to do a better job of identifying difficult customers and severing relationships with those customers. You can't build a successful business chasing after customers who want to take incomparably more time from your employees than the average customer. That's just bad business.

This read exactly like a hundred other anecdotal *****fest narratives from customers of custom frame builders who were livid the frame builder didn't want to talk to them about the frame everyday, or got frustrated when the customer changed what the spec/order was for midstream. If I was CycleArt or a frame builder I'd build into my business model a minimum charge to change ANYTHING after an order was completed and approved by the customer. That sets the expectation that the customer was entering into the purchase of services. The value of the service is the value added the company can create from their time. This customer did not recognize that the time of the employees of the company was valuable. They didn't need, nor want him checking up on them acting as a Quality Control specialist looking over their shoulder to ensure the work was properly done (strip old paint down to metal is an example). If you don't trust them to do the job, take it to someone you do trust.

That narrative and that rant is everything that is wrong with the internet. I wouldn't' think twice about having CA finish a bike for me, and the ravings of what read to me as the *****ing of an unreasonable customer doesn't faze me in the least. It just characterizes him for me, in my mind.

Drillium Dude 

^ Different strokes...

I stand behind my experiences. The OP asked for feedback and I answered honestly. You're entitled to your opinion as am I. That is all.

DD

gomango

Blocked.

Vonruden

He lost me at the 2nd paragraph...a little bizarre (albeit, I am on my 4th beer and easily lost).

Giacomo 1 

Thanks bud.

Yeah, if somebody took a bare frame and said they were going to paint it green and purple, I'd have gagged at the thought, but somehow it works!

You have a good memory for an old, retired guy my friend!

jr59

Keith Anderson, or Jason Sanchez, and Craig Ryan all do VERY good work. IMO; As good as Joe Bell.

Allan Wanta if you want it quicker and less money. Good but not really up to those listed above.

KonAaron Snake 

I've never seen someone write so much to say so little.

gomango

No such luck here.

I have 20+ soccer players here for a pasta feed.

Maybe once the teenagers clear out.

top506

+1.
Gent needs an editor.

Top

pcb 

Mmmmm.....beer.

Always wanted to give Bruce at The Color Factory a try. Very good and very affordable seems to be his rep. Don't know of any other painters in Jersey.

Nowhere near local to me, but lots of builders are using Keith Anderson.

KonAaron Snake 

From what I hear the thickness and quality is very similar to old italian paint.

What I really need to find is a competent, affordable chromer.

embankmentlb

My Look- Bernard Hinault was repainted by CycleArt before It made it to my hands. Overall they did a great job. If you know the bike, the paint and decals are more complicated than most.
It's better than the original.

I wonder just how much it cost?

embankmentlb

rccardr 

I have three frames painted by CA, a Sachs and a Rivendell Road Standard, as well as a Lemond that was touched up and clear coated. All three are exceptional, investment-quality frames, if such a thing exists.

Al Wanta has painted four frames for me, three Merckxs and a Serotta, all were done exceptionally well, no complaints, very reasonable prices, about a three month wait time and a genuinely nice guy.

rootboy 

Then again, it speaks volumes about the writer.

iab

Obviously never read or watched A River Runs Through It

repechage

The mtnbke defense of Cyclart I will let sit on its own logic.
If one reads the Colnago saga it does repeat a few details that show up repeatedly:
Their estimates are just that and not accurate enough. Considering they have been in the business 30 years, I would expect better by now.
The recycling and waste disposal fees are not mandated, they are an profit prop. It is only in the last year that there is a modest fee in California on paint.
The charging for work in progress shots especially when "promise" dates have been missed is bad form. In the case of the Colnago I think they were asked for as the trust factor evaporated. With the ease of digital photography and smart phones it takes so little time. I do it for clients and it is not worth the time to bill.

As to the Colnago owner loving the bike, it got sold off at a significant loss. reflection and assessment take time.

satbuilder 

One of my all time favorite movies. Great reference!

iab

Most importantly, I cannot comment on CA. Never worked with them on anything. And also with regards to the Colnago story, I have only heard one side.

But having worked as a consultant for a couple decades, the most vital sentence in every contract of the hundreds I signed was, "Changes in scope will affect cost and timing." Also in those decades there was only one, I repeat one, change in scope that decreased cost and timing.

Not saying it happened in Colnago story, but paint can hide a lot of sins.

As for nickel and diming a customer, it was something I never initiated. And there are many customers where they asked for a minor change in scope and I "ate" the cost. They were good customers. But then there are many other customers who would nickel and dime me to death. I returned the favor without any regrets.