asgelle

I guess my question would be were you told it would be an endurance paced ride, or did you assume that? It isn't clear from the first post. I agree rides should be as advertised, but people have the right to hammer and beat up on each other if that's their preference. Just as they have the right not to ride with jerks.

LesterOfPuppets

I don't see any particular reason to be upset, unless you really hate riding solo, or are unfamiliar with the area, making getting back home difficult.

79pmooney

That middle paragraph of Heathpack's post (#13) out to be verbalized every time this happens. Roosters strutting their stuff?

In my racing days, I spent a summer riding and training alone for the most part. Did a 45 mile loop several times a week. Frequently a woman of our club would cross me on her commute to work. When that happened, she would pull a U-turn and draft me for a longer, faster ride in. I took a day off mid-week and usually did a 120 mile ride to the top of the biggest hill in central Mass. I'd let her know and if she was up to it, we met the same way, do the middle 80 miles together, then I would drop her off close to her home with 20 to go for me. Mostly I would pull. A little side by side on the quiet roads. Pace dropped to her level on hills until we hit the big climb, then we each did our own thing and met for lunch at the top. I did my speed work on that hill and on rides without her. This routine worked very well. That summer was the high point of my racing, a level of form I never saw before or since. She was a joy to ride with. She loved riding with the men who were faster but courteous because she got to go further and faster doing what she loved, riding the bike.

One day, I had to do the ride early and work the afternoon so we started early, She'd raced the night before and didn't have the legs. We got to the big hill OK but I couldnt waste time coming home. Right after coming off the hill were two far lesser but still very real back country climbs. She absolutely didn't have it. So, do I leaver her 40 miles from home? Show up at work an hour late? Well, I could push her. I'd been told how. So I did. One of the two hardest climbs I have ever done. (I wouldn't learn until years later when I tried to push someone else just how good a rider she was. She "got" that she was steering for both of us. I had my left hand at the stem and was going to the max nearly cross-eyed.)

It was amusing that when I showed up for the big races, I often did far better than the riders who worshiped the fast rides. 30 years later I rode with the same woman and her husband for a hilly 40 mile ride in Vermont. Different dynamics with three. It was usually 2 and 1 in all combinations with frequent circle backs by the two men. Worked really well. The time I spent riding with her was a reminder of that special summer. (And no, romance was not a part of this, just pure riding by two who loved to ride and could do it together so well.)

Ben

Reynolds 

Unless it was stated before that the ride was going to be a no mercy/race, they shouldn't have droped you. And not 100% sure, but I think gender might have to do with it.

voyager1

Heathpack 

Whether you are upset or not depends on the circumstance:

Dropped from a "no drop" ride- that's annoying
Dropped by a few friends putting together a casual ride- that's annoying
Dropped because one guy decides he can't contain himself on the Monday night easy ride and all the other guys chase- that's annoying

Dropped from Tuesday Night Worlds- not annoying
Fall back from the A group to the B group on the big Saturday ride- not annoying
Can't keep up with the epic endurance ride and ask people to please go on without you, you'll limp it home- not annoying

And definitely the circumstance you describe- invited on a ride, not your route, don't know where you are, get dropped- annoying

aplcr0331

Every group ride I've been we typically do the following if there is someone new to the group.

1. Discuss the route.
2. Note all regroup points.
3. Exchange numbers for texting in case of emergency.
4. Establish the "pace".

Next time ask those questions, I do if they're not discussed. That way you know right away what it's going to be like. Even better ask those questions prior to the ride

Sounds like your friends may have over estimated your form/shape fitness level at this time. You've never ridden with them before? If the rides are on Strava or whatever tracking app your group uses you could check out the average speed they ride at and see if that fits you. That sucks that it happened that way, are there other groups more your ability level? Maybe next time you can offer to be the group leader and take your friends on your favorite route. And prior to the ride establish your own ground rules. They'll enjoy the ride with you and see what your expectations are when riding with a group. You could even say out and out to them "Hey, that was a tough ride I was not ready for that", "do you think next time we can do a more sustainable pace"? Something to that effect, I don't think you have to write those friends off at all, just set expectations.

Group rides are a lot of fun. Just have to plan a bit more going forwards and communicate up front so you're not surprised next time!

Good luck.

caloso

Exactly.

LesterOfPuppets

Many clubs/groups have an established pace/avg speed ranking. When I'm leading I always tell everyone both the expected flat ground cruising speed and average speed. For the casual groups I lead that's often 17/15 or 17/14, somewhere in there. I often find if you tell people the average speed of the two or three groups we have, they think that's too slow and will jump into a faster group, then die So it's much better to cite both speeds.

Trsnrtr

rubiksoval

Well, some of us do.

But I've been in the same situation as the OP and simply turned around and gone home myself.

Sometimes the hammer, sometimes the nail sort of thing. But it can be very irritating when you're prepped (mentally/physically) for one type of ride and then hanging on to another.

rubiksoval

That sucks. I'd be pissed, too.

He's just clueless, so you gotta let him know. Otherwise, he won't.

LesterOfPuppets

Actually the last one could be dangerous in some cases.

Another one where I'd call it more than a minor annoyance would be where they've invited you out on a ride that requires you drive an hour or more to get to, and it turns out they've misrepresented what the ride would be like.

OldTryGuy

I never assume anything about a ride after having done so one time.

datlas 

Life lesson. I think your co-riders were semi-******y but this is pretty typical roadie behavior. I would not give up on riding with them again but next time you may want to clarify the expected pace and whether it will be a no-drop ride. Then you can have a more realistic expectation and decide if you want to join or not.

Sy Reene

The problem with even the posted pace is that it all goes to heck as soon as uphills and downhills are involved. Eg. our club uses and A/B/C designation, followed by a speed number, eg. C14, B18, A22 or whatnot... the numbers within each category can change, though C rides never exceed 15, B rides don't exceed 19, and A rides start usually at 20. A rides by default mean that paceline skills are expected.

The problem is hills.. the pace as listed by the ride is average speed on flats. The ability of riders to climb varies a lot. While one person is fine holding eg. a 18mph pace on flats, some riders will go up the 5% gradient at 12mph, some can only manage 10 or 8mph. On the downhills, there are those uncomfortable going full out and actually pedaling, and therefore do some braking on a descent. I've seen recently some ride postings (modern era stuff) where leader has posted the expected watts/kg output for the riders.. this for obvious reasons has all sorts of other flaws..

CliffordK

If they wanted to, they could have split the ride.

A group of 4 is tough to split, but it could have been split into 2 groups of 2 riders. So nobody is left fending for themselves.

One can have regroup points after big climbs. To some extent, one can vary one's pace on hills, but this has me a bit worried. I had a 70+ yr old neighbor invite me to do some training rides on his private road/driveway. I only did the first 1/8 mile or so to the gate, but it is wicked steep. The problem is that my good bike just doesn't have the gears to drop down to his pace. I have to give him many kudos for doing the hill, but it would just seem awkward if we ever ride together, and I disappeared out of sight.

Sy Reene

Exactly right.. sometimes to slow down to the pace, and without the gearing to match, you can find yourself mashing at 50rpms. Regroups work for a long climb with a top; more issues if there are lots of rolling hills, where the regroup may be 5 miles down the road.

rm -rf

Yes. That's a big help for new riders. On one of my first club rides, I remember being very surprised at the fast pace on the flatter roads, well above the "15 average" advertised speed. Including the flat road speeds give a better idea of the true pace.

I've been on quite a few rides over the years where I just couldn't keep up with the group toward the end of the ride. I had the route on a GPS, and told them to go ahead, I'd meet up at the end of the ride. But they've always waited. (which can be kind of annoying, I wanted to slow way down, but felt I had to make a hard effort since they waited at turns.) I've never seen the "sorry, we'll drop you if you can't keep up" attitude, ever.


Rides can easily be faster than advertised if most of the riders that show up can go fast. It's okay on shorter rides as long as all the riders can hang on and don't get gapped off the group, but it's not really fair to the slowest few that weren't expecting a max effort ride. The ride leader should try to dial back the pace. Sometimes the group can be split into two speeds after the ride starts, since so many riders have the route loaded now.

Yeah, drafting can let faster and slower riders stay together, with the slower riders hanging in the back, not pulling. But hills don't work this way, and there's a big difference in climbing speeds.

But the groups I've ridden with don't mind regrouping at the top of a mile long hill, and there's often just a few of these. The wait is rarely more than a minute.

A very hilly ride with a big list of climbs gets fewer of the slow climbers, as long as they actually look at the ride description or the route in advance.

RShantz

IMO this represents the true difficulty in group rides especially those with small groups. When one rider isn't able to sit in w/o getting dropped. Do the other riders suffer (alter their riding) to benefit the one weaker rider?

In the end, it looks like there was poor communication of the ride pace before the ride. Surely you wouldn't have joined if you would have clearly known that you couldn't keep the pace.

Trsnrtr

atwl77

I don't think there is any general consensus, apart from the very broad assumption that the A group is the fastest, the C group are the slowest and the B group are the middle ground between the two.
But everything outside of that is going to be relative to the group or club involved. The C group of a fast, racing-paced club may end up being faster than the A group of a casual touring club, and whether they will wait for you or not really depends on the drop policy of the club and/or the ride leader organizing a specific ride (though typically clubs have some kind of general rule, like "we don't leave anyone behind" or so on).

Dean V

Surely if they know you well they have a fairly good idea of the pace you can ride at?
To then invite you to a ride and then drop you is simply rude.
Even if it turns out to they need to go a bit slower than expected they should just ease up.
It is only a group of four "friends" so it is not like you are expecting a large group of strangers to modify their ride to suit you.

woodcraft

in my club, A is slowest, & C is fast, so there's not even consensus on that.

exmechanic89

To the OP I'd say find another group. If this had happened to me I would've just done my own ride, but then I primarly ride alone anyway - you know, so I dont get dropped by any Cat 1 riders. .