Paul Barnard

I enjoy an occasional group ride. I prefer them on back roads. I have never been a part of a group that doesn't work cooperatively with motor vehicle traffic. In each group ride where there are new members we held a brief at the beginning of the ride where we talked about negotiating traffic and control devices. The leader would say "slowing" so everyone knew what to expect. We bunched up at stops and moved through as a single unit rather than going one by one. We didn't always come to a complete stop. I don't do that in a car either. I want to be respected as a road user, so I treat others respectfully. I won't ride with group of jerks.

WonderMonkey

I do appreciate all the comments in this thread. I wasn't looking for validation but it was nice to hear that others have experienced it and what they have done about it. I also appreciate be questioned so that I can look at myself and see what I could do differently either in actions or expectations.

Here are my thoughts.
- In my ride description I will list the expectations that seem to be my "pet peeves". Maybe I'll put it here for examination. There is always a copy and paste section about helmets and such but I'll add my own.

- I will treat the rides like I do my hikes (where I am very comfortable) and state the rules and will give reminders and possible enforcement during the ride.

- And such.

Thanks again.

shelbyfv

I enjoy riding both alone and with groups. Any group has it's own dynamic, customs, etc. I'm surprised the club "leaders" solicited you to be in charge of a ride. It would have been better for you to participate for awhile, see how things went. Group rides aren't for everyone, and certainly every group doesn't suit every rider.

SpeshulEd 

As the ride leader, you should be setting the rules. If you're approaching a stop sign and plan on stopping, hand signals and vocal cues are a big help to inform those behind you what needs to be done.

Personally, I feel if people want to go on a ride that you're leading, they should expect to follow your lead...if they don't like what you're doing, then they can lead their own ride or find another group to ride with.

I lead a ride every other week and when we have beginners, I'm constantly working my way up and down the line of riders instructing the new people what to do, stay in the pace line, we're going to turn here and there, etc.

It sounds like you let a couple of people get to you. Next time you'll be ready for them.

Stucky

Part of the joy of cycling is avoiding asswads- therefore, I'd never ride in a group.

If I were the OP, I think I would have gone home and gotten my truck, and then gone out looking for that one idot who crashed into him, and run him down!

Garfield Cat

The irony is that a good percentage of those riders in a group also have their drivers license and drive daily.

The other irony, on residential streets some drivers (not cyclists) just do a rolling stop or none at all depending on traffic.

WonderMonkey

I originally contacted them about leading a ride but they asked me if I would take on THAT one. I told them I didn't have too many road miles.

WonderMonkey

It never occurred to me that I would have to signal for someone to stop at a stop sign. Sure I know that plenty of times I have witnessed groups of people on bikes not stop but to be honest I didn't think it was as common as I'm now realizing. If and when I do another group ride that is on the road I will be better prepared, as you fine folks in this thread have helped me be.

bruce19

I do not know what the total circumstance on the stop was but if you stopped at every stop sign whether there were other cars at the intersection or not I'd just leave you. There is nothing unsafe about riding through an intersection if no other vehicles are there. Again, I don't know what your actual circumstances were.

As for large groups going through intersections, on group rides here if we are turning left at an intersection the last rider will typically take the lane to allow the rest of the group to make the turn without a car splitting the group and creating an unsafe situation. Don't know if that is what you were referring to. In CT bicycles are vehicles and are entitled to a lane.

WonderMonkey

I see that as well and don't care for it the same as when bicycles do it. I know that many feel that they are uniquely qualified to make the decisions because they can see or whatever the situation, and most of the time they CAN see. I personally don't like the outcome of the "Whoops, mistake...." when it doesn't work out. It's easy enough to make a mistake, why compound the issue?

WonderMonkey

He was still on the ride with me. I did end up talking with him about it. He's also the one that seemed to enjoy not playing nice with the vehicles.

Sy Reene

One thing about stop signs and a policy of everyone stopping at them.. Take a group of a dozen riders.. each rolls up to the stop sign, stops, then proceeds; single file, one at a time and it will take quite a long time to get thru each intersection -- to the extent the leader and the group will have to wait every few blocks.

Maelochs

I don't have a lot of group ride experience, but I do know that on a couple I've been on everyone has stopped and started together--everyone stopped, put a foot down, then mounted up and took off as a group, instead of waiting for the rider ahead. If the riders are semi-competent and making an effort, this isn't hard.

As for knowing when a rolling stop is safe everything about riding and driving is a series of life-and-death (or injury) judgment calls.

At one intersection I ride through, I cannot get a turn signal because, fat as I am, I do not seem to trigger the switch (not sure if it is weight or magnetic--my current bikes are aluminum.) I can either wait indefinitely for a car to turn left, or I can make a judgment call based on when oncoming traffic has a right-turn arrow but not a green light, or when the light is green but there is no traffic. Either way I am crossing an intersection of two four-lane roads with turn lanes (six lanes each way) so I am out there in the road for several seconds.

Should I wait for a car turning left? I might wait all day, literally---I am coming off a little-used road (which is why I ride it.) Or should I make a judgment call and trust my senses?

If I can make that call, why can’t others?

Bad drivers will always drive badly, inattentive or distracted or rude drivers are always a threat, but most drivers most of the time can tell if it is safe to go, or there would be a whole lot more accidents.

Not trying to bicker, but I can see with a group ride where stopping completely for every sign could be balanced with slowing enough to be sure there are no cars coming and saving momentum—I know, if it were me and I could plainly see, I would likely slow but not completely stop on a bike. (In fact, I got into a disagreement with a ride leader when he didn’t stop at every 4-way stop sign even when there were quite obviously no cars anywhere around. After that I started watching my own behavior to see what I did riding solo, when no one was watching.)

So ... I am divided on this. If the group leader said, “Full stop, foot down” (which is what I was used to) then no problem. Depending on the terrain, traffic, and level of rider skill, this probably should be the default. However if the terrain, traffic, and talent allowed it, I would not be offended if the leader merely slowed and looked.

Also, I completely agree with passing through intersections en masse. Having a bunch of cyclists straggled all across a couple intersecting roads trying to catch lights and get through traffic is not a safe situation—too much information for drivers to process.

Here I think it is better to have one person ride slowly on the outside and interfere with traffic while the whole group either turns or goes through the intersection, and if the light changes with a couple riders still coming (assuming the group is in a solid pack, not strung out) I think it is best to hold up traffic, and yes, commit the cardinal sin of annoying drivers, so the whole group can stay together and get out of the dangerous situation.

Again, it is a judgment call as to how long traffic will be interrupted, how spread out the group is, and whatever the real, on-the-road situation is—amount of traffic, number of lanes, length of lights, weather, whatever.

What I learn from this thread (not that I will be using it—no rides I will be leading) is that the leader of the ride can lay out guidelines up front to make the rest of the ride work better for everyone.

Also the thread reinforces the idea that the leader should be communicating with the riders constantly through hand signals so if s/he does something unexpected the riders have some warning.

WonderMonkey

It would be nice if we stopped and waited as a group is traffic allowed that. However my, or the group's, inconvenience doesn't make it ok in my mind.

Again I'm not all up in arms about it, I just agree with it. I thank the thread for their varied opinions. It has helped.

Stucky

The sad thing is, he'll be the one to get hit by some hapless driver, due to his own carelessness...and then sue the driver and the ride organizer and bike manufacturer and the guy who paints the yellow lines down the middle of the road, for everything they're worth. I really detest people like him- and for seem reason, such people seem to be attracted to cycling in disproportionately high numbers.

OneOldSeaDog

Sorry to hear the issues you had. I ride 4-5 days per week generally 40-50 miles per ride with 2 groups of mostly retired people and find the rides much more enjoyable than riding by myself. Maybe I was just lucky to find the right groups.

WonderMonkey

I try hard to not generalize but people do fall into the "Everybody does it, so ...." and "It's the way things are..." and so forth. I guarantee you that in some place in my life I do this as well yet I don't realize it. I certainly HOPE I am not but possibly I am.

I only get to make decisions on what I notice. I try to notice all the bikes on the road that are doing a great job. I try to notice all the cars that are doing what they should with sharing the road. We know that the few drives the majority of impressions that stick with us and therefore we react to that.

Small but boring story.... I'm 6'2". When I got out of the military and went to OSU (college) I thought "Wow, everybody is so damn tall, it used to be that 6'2" was considered tall!" Then I decided that the next time I walked across campus I was going to look at each person. So I did. As can be expected I was only noticing the taller people and making a judgement on that. It's what sticks out.

WonderMonkey

I'll join in a group ride as a participant and I'm sure everything will go well. I'm sure I'll learn a bunch as well.

Stucky

Hehe, kind of like when you buy a certain car, and all of a sudden, it seems that half the people you encounter now have that very same car- but of course, it's just because we didn't notice those cars before, but do now, because we have one.

But jerks are just jerks....

I mean, I roll plenty of stop signs on my bike- but only in situations where I can clearly see what is going on in all directions and know that I will not be creating a hazard to others or myself. As a cyclist, I may have just as much right to use the road as any car or truck, but I do try and use common sense and courtesy so as not to unduly inconvenience faster/bigger vehicles. I never want to give any sane driver a reason to complain about me being on the road....if a car's coming up behind me on a narrow road, it doesn't take much effort for me to pull off into a driveway for a second to let the guy go by, instead of letting him be stuck behind me for 5 minutes as I labor up a hill at 5MPH, and where he can't see far enough to pass me. Just little courtesies like that go so far.

On the other extreme, the strictly-by-the-book types who come to a complete stop at any and every stop sign just because "It's the law" can be equally annoying. As with most things in life, common sense and moderation are the keys.

WonderMonkey

I error on the side of the annoying, not just because it's the law but because I want everyone around me, be they on a bike, rocket-sled, whatever, to make SURE they give the best chance of being safe. I try to guard against becoming TOO COMFORTABLE with taking a liberty else I do it when I shouldn't and then something bad happens.

In reality your approach to pulling over, etc. is what I do in life in general. Why not play nice? The one particular car or person hasn't done anything to me so I'll play nice.

Dalton: I want you to be nice.. until it's time..to not be nice

Wittyname

I've done a fair number of group rides this year, mostly with good results. Leaders have always been very firm about the group abiding by traffic controls as a group; that is, when we near a stop, leader surges up a little and stops, the rest of the group slows behind them. If no traffic, they will call 'clear' and the group slowly goes through the stop and the leader catches back up. If traffic, they call 'stop' and we stop and wait. Seems to really be the best for the situation.

sidenote; the larger charity events I've done seem to bring out all the people who act exactly as you describe. Blowing stop signs, 3-4 wide, no situational awareness

ltxi

Ahhh, sanity. I like that....

MR BIG STUFF

Why bother?

Riding bikes is fun, until you get stuck with a pretentious *******.

Bugstomper2000

When I'm on group rides the leader shouts these signals and vocal cues, and everybody else passes it down the line:
-Stop Sign: "Stopping" and some people put their arm down since that is the legal signal for an alternative to brake lights
-Red Light: "Slowing" and we slow down about 20 feet before the light to where we can just stay upright in order to not have to unclip, hoping the light will turn. Obviously when we're going that slow we don't have to say anything for stopping.
-Pothole: "Hole" and point to it
-Bump that spans the entire lane: "Bump"
-Bump that just spans part of the lane: "Bump" and point to it
-Turn: Hand signals
-I haven't caught on to what is said when we get single file since we don't do it much

Only pass these on if it is safe to do so obviously and always focus on the road as well as the person in front of you. The other day I got distracted by the cue, started to pass it on, then hit the pothole. Luckily, I just broke a spoke and didn't fall. Also, some things on group rides are inevitable and can't be prevented. On that same ride actually, a fire truck pulled out of the station and cut us off before we could stop, leaving us no choice but to slam on the brakes. Two people weren't able to stop in time and ran into the people in front of them, flipping their bikes. Luckily nobody was seriously injured, just a missing fingernail. Now, don't think that group rides are bad from just this ride. This was a particularly bad ride, and the only one where I have either damaged my bike or there has been a crash.

Lazyass

Some jerks in that group. But you should have never agreed to lead the group being too timid to take charge of it.