kbjack

The bike is a Koga Miyata Randonneur, most likely 1989 or '90--a Dutch company whose frames were built by Miyata with their proprietary steel. It's definitely not a repaint--other than the dent it's in very nice shape...part of the reason I'm so bummed.

The bike is well-equipped: Shimano 600 touring cranks and brakes, Suntour Accushift 6000 RD, Shimano deerhead(xt?) FD, 105 hubs laced to Mavic M3CD rims (with new Schwalbe Marathons), full racks and fenders, and a bb generator with headlight (haven't tested that yet).

I got what I considered at the time to be a good deal - $500 +shipping. But that was for a bike described as being in "barely-used" condition.

...

I think what he's saying in the quote (he's a German expat, so his English is sometimes spotty) is that he'd be willing to reimburse me if the frame shows signs of failure down the road. Not that he'd be willing to compensate for the current damage.

kbjack

Receiver can make a claim, but the correspondence and remittance goes through the shipper--an arrangement which doesn't make much sense in my case as the bike shop is simply a go-between here.

longbeachgary

I know it's a bummer for you but if you really like the bike so much, maybe you should just ride it and enjoy it. I had a Santana Tandem that had a stuck seat post on it. I took it to the shop to have them get it out but while doing it they hit the top tube with a heavy hammer and put a quarter sized dent in it. The dent didn't cause any cracks and didn't affect the bike in any way. I kept the bike for a couple of years before passing it on to a friend and he still has it and that was about 6 or 7 years ago.

kbjack

Well, at some point in the near future this is what I hope to do. I'd feel much better doing it, though, knowing I got a fair deal.

SouthernGothic

My experience shipping bikes and having bikes shipped to me via UPS had been dismal. Of the 8 I have recieved, UPS has damaged 7 of them. The packages, no matter how poorly or how well they are packed, arrive ripped, smashed, dented, torn, etc. I will no longer use UPS because of their hideous service.

kbjack

Sorry to hear it. Have you had much luck in seeking insurance claims?

AdrianFly

Who cares. Awesome deal.

Get the bike together and ride the hell out of it.

imabeliever1

I would agree totally with UPS being a very poor choice for shipping. Pastor Bob sent me a frame via UPS. Frame arrived structurally intact , but the box had a hole approx. 10" by 13" . Package with kick stand escaped thru that hole. I do not believe there was a corner that had not been crunched to some degree.

UPS = Ultimate Poor Service

epicurean

+1. Make an "Emergency Contact" information label in as close a color as you can find, then stick it over the ding and put it out of your mind.

23skidoo

I buy and sell a lot of frames on ebay and Craigslist and my experience runs the gamut with shippers and packers. Earlier this summer made an ebay deal for a '79 custom Trek fitted out in all original-issue black Dura Ace components from a Florida seller. I made the arrangements with a lbs recommended by the seller--Bicycle World in North Palm Beach--and arranged to have it packaged there and shipped via my FedEx account. They wanted $60 to package the bike so I called and spoke to an employee who assured me the bike would be packed 'just like we get them new from the manufacturer'. Paying an outrageous packaging fee is no guarantee of a professional job; when I received the box there were holes worn in the sides and hubs with no plastic protectors were visible. This was a large road bike and the box they used was too small and the wheels had just been jammed in against the frame with no protection whatsoever. The frame had a single layer of the skimpiest used bubble wrap around the tubes and the chainwheels and drive-side cranks had just been tossed into loose into the bottom of the box, and the fork brace was down there with it, not between the forks. Needless to say the paint finish was marred and scraped all over the bike and FedEx denied my claim due to 'insufficient protective packaging materials'. The manager of the bike shop sent me a smarmy, condescending email about how all their employees were experienced professionals and they had an outstanding record of packing bikes for shipment for over 20 years--a clear evidence of massive disconnect between management and employees--but she did throw me the tiniest bone by refunding the packing charge.

Sorry to ramble on for so long but my experience is like that of others; many sellers are total morons who wouldn't know how to pack a bike for shipment and neither would many of the so-called 'professionals' who work at local bike shops and the major shipping companies will use every dodge and flimsy excuse to keep from honoring the money you spend to insure packages with their shipping service. True professional packaging is worth it's weight in gold: I received a road bike last week that had been packaged by yellowjersey in Madison, WI and the box looked like Godzilla had been the designated handler but all the pertinent parts were completely wrapped in foam and everything else was braced, secured and zip-tied to keep it in place so there was not the smallest bit of damage.

Good luck with your claim and be persistent to the bitter end, you'll gain some measure of satisfaction even if all your claims are denied.

RobbieTunes

+1 on UPS shipping being very poor.
Not only do they damage, they overmeasure to get a higher rate.

Lately, I'm using Priority Mail on a cut-down box.
Disassembly and foam is the key for me.
With disassembly, you're basically dealing with two wheels and a frame.
Everything else, wrapped in bubble wrap, becomes cushioning.

If you receive a box that looks bad, make the driver stay and open it in front of him, and note the damage then. He's got to input it into that box he uses, and the claim is opened at that point. I refuse the item, and ask them to hold it until I can meet with their OS&D clerk. Generally, you can inspect it again at the terminal, and the clerk's job includes making the claim go away.

These are small claims for them, but the right of refund does go to the shipper.

If you are arranging for someone to ship it to you, make it from you, also, using your address.
There is no rule against that, and you technically are the shipper, with the right to claim damages.
In most states, the recipient merely has the right of refusal, not indemnity, from a shipper.
The recipient must seek indemnity from the shipper/seller.

That's why you go after the seller. It's based on offer/consideration/acceptance.
Your offer is your bid, the consideration your payment in exchange for the eBay ad.
Acceptance is the seller taking your money. That's your deal with the seller, $ for bike.

The shipper has a deal with the seller, or whomever paid for those services.
The offer is the agreement to send a bike. Consideration is the price paid, acceptance is actually the printing of the label. the deal is $ for moving the bike safely.
The seller, therefore, is wronged if the shipper damages the item.

That's the only reason, IMO, to let a UPS store pack and ship a bike. If they do, all the blame is theirs. Once they accept your offer to pay them to pack and ship, they're on the hook.

Then again, that does the bike little good when some Upland Gorilla treats it like Samsonite.

kbjack

Some good suggestions and well-taken warnings here. Thanks everyone.

Like I said, at some point soon, this will all be history and I'll be riding the bike without a thought to the ding. Right now, though, I just want a little peace of mind.

I'm not holding out much hope for the UPS claim. There's just no reason that I can see (aside from ethics ) for them to honor their insurance. They have the guns, the numbers, and the loopholes. I just have a ding and a complaint.

I've sent a message to the seller letting him know I'd be filing a claim with paypal and/or my cc company unless we can reach a fair deal. We'll see what comes of this. I'll keep you posted.

Poguemahone

This is a good first step. If the seller agrees to a partial refund acceptable to you, you get the cash from him, not the CC company or paypal. It's to his advantage to do so, because if paypal decides not to honor the complaint, the CC likely will, and one way or another the entire amount will be coming out of the seller's hide. It'll be cheaper for him to reach an agreement with you. This is why it is important to stick to just facts-- you want him to come to this very conclusion. Decide the minimum you will accept. Good luck.

+1 on the randomness of shipping quality via ebay. I don't buy bikes thru there any more after two bad expereinces; I prefer to find them locally. Plus, I have too many bikes already and don't need to be buying more.

SouthernGothic

Yes. Actually I have had no trouble with the claims. The damage was so bad and so obvious there could have been no argument.
The delivery man on two occaisions actually complained about the weight before dropping one of them and destroying the chainguard.

miamijim

+1.

I recently sent a carbon/aluminum Klein to Hawaii and was nervous the entire time. Although my packaging was bullet proof I knew anything could happen during the 2 week trip.

I used a USPS service which required pick up at the post office and I told the buyer many, many times that it must be opened and inspected in the presence of a USPS employee, otherwise shipping damage wouldnt be covered.

miamijim

I had a BF C&V member try to extort a shipping refund from me beacuse a bullet proof package of mine arrived late. It was clear feedback extortion....I had none of it and told him to put it back in the box and return it.

If your so unhappy with this transaction send it back. You've gotten a packaging refund of $60 or ~10% of the whole deal....what exactly are you looking for from the seller? $10, $20, $50...$100?

kbjack

I think you're mistaking me for 23skidoo above--I haven't received any refund for shipping. I also don't think seeking a partial refund for unrepresented damage constitutes extortion.

I do agree that delayed shipping shouldn't result in a refund, but that's not what we're talking about here.