I've done my research and looking for feedback on a new touring bike
#76
Senior Member
17mph vs 17.01mph was meant to show that while one speed is faster than the other, that doesnt give a full picture as to which is best. If the 'slower' tire is more comfortable then perhaps the .01mph is worth giving up.
Me pushing back is because of the firm insistence that someone shouldnt go above 35mm. It may be a barrier that you want to stay under, but its quite arbitrary since some 38mm tires roll faster than some 35mm tires. And the rest- well its just been pseudo intelligent justifications for you being so rigid.
Your main argument, that aerodynamics and weight is somehow a big issue, is a joke.
Oh, and I have 35mm tires on my commute/tour bike right now.
Me pushing back is because of the firm insistence that someone shouldnt go above 35mm. It may be a barrier that you want to stay under, but its quite arbitrary since some 38mm tires roll faster than some 35mm tires. And the rest- well its just been pseudo intelligent justifications for you being so rigid.
Your main argument, that aerodynamics and weight is somehow a big issue, is a joke.
Oh, and I have 35mm tires on my commute/tour bike right now.
#77
Senior Member
If you truly cared about fast you'd be riding tubeless supple tires and wouldn't be so concerned about width. Width matters less than tire choice.
Personally I like my tires 40+mm because I've only ever done road tours in developed countries and by doing so racked thousands of clicks of gravel. It would seem that the most interesting routes are often gravel.
#78
Senior Member
I'm confused. You're here arguing for fast but as I've understood you ride marathon plusses? That's not a fast tire. Surprisingly fast for what it is yes but still a slow tire.
If you truly cared about fast you'd be riding tubeless supple tires and wouldn't be so concerned about width. Width matters less than tire choice.
Personally I like my tires 40+mm because I've only ever done road tours in developed countries and by doing so racked thousands of clicks of gravel. It would seem that the most interesting routes are often gravel.
If you truly cared about fast you'd be riding tubeless supple tires and wouldn't be so concerned about width. Width matters less than tire choice.
Personally I like my tires 40+mm because I've only ever done road tours in developed countries and by doing so racked thousands of clicks of gravel. It would seem that the most interesting routes are often gravel.
I can't do tubeless because I fly to many tours and flying with the sealant mess is a pain.
#79
Senior Member
I use different tires depending on the terrain I'm expecting to experience on a particular tour. I have some Marathon Pluses in the closet yes, but I also have some Marathon Supremes. I have 21mm road tires too that I use for credit card tours. Different tour, different tires depending on conditions.
I can't do tubeless because I fly to many tours and flying with the sealant mess is a pain.
I can't do tubeless because I fly to many tours and flying with the sealant mess is a pain.
21mm is obsolete. Not even the pro's use 21mm anymore. That's track width these days. There really isn't a single good reason for 21mm on the road.
#80
Senior Member
Obsolete since what cutoff date? I've had these tires in my closet for going on ten years. They rarely get used. But I'm not going to throw a pair of tires out just because I saw something on TV. They will be thrown out when they are worn out or when they rot from age, whichever is earlier.
#81
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I use different tires depending on the terrain I'm expecting to experience on a particular tour. I have some Marathon Pluses in the closet yes, but I also have some Marathon Supremes. I have 21mm road tires too that I use for credit card tours. Different tour, different tires depending on conditions.
I can't do tubeless because I fly to many tours and flying with the sealant mess is a pain.
I can't do tubeless because I fly to many tours and flying with the sealant mess is a pain.
Hey OP- good luck on finding the bike you want. A Fairlight Faran would be sweet!
I clearly didnt stay away from the touring forum long enough.
All this thread needs is cycco to chime in.
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#82
Senior Member
Ok, this explains a lot and makes discussing the topic further a dumb thing to do.
Hey OP- good luck on finding the bike you want. A Fairlight Faran would be sweet!
I clearly didnt stay away from the touring forum long enough.
All this thread needs is cycco to chime in.
Hey OP- good luck on finding the bike you want. A Fairlight Faran would be sweet!
I clearly didnt stay away from the touring forum long enough.
All this thread needs is cycco to chime in.
I bought them years ago when I was an expat in China riding their ungodly perfect roads. Now I'm back and these tires don't see much use. As I keep saying, ride tires that suit the condition.
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An interesting google search, however, when you actually do the math and add approximately 400 grams to the wheels. Then accelerate to say 30 km/h the amount of so-called additional energy required is approximately 3 watts. Your constant exaggeration and selective use of facts are silly. But since you like the google defense please review (https://www.renehersecycles.com/tire...-vs-real-road/) and point out the flaws with the logic.
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#87
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This bike is a gravel 2x 29er I guess, so reasonable enough to call it speced to be a tour bike. This seat is way up for a basketball player type it looks like, 3" above the stem, not normal at all. The rack mount height isn't bad at all compared to the high tires. It's slope isn't much more than 2", hardly any resemblance to Surly Troll type bikes that have a brace at the seat tube/ TT joint. Does that make sense?? NO.
#88
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This bike is a gravel 2x 29er I guess, so reasonable enough to call it speced to be a tour bike. This seat is way up for a basketball player type it looks like, 3" above the stem, not normal at all. The rack mount height isn't bad at all compared to the high tires. It's slope isn't much more than 2", hardly any resemblance to Surly Troll type bikes that have a brace at the seat tube/ TT joint. Does that make sense?? NO.
My touring bike has 2.5" of saddle to bar drop.
^ that is determined by body geometry- arm length, torso length, and leg length. Your ignorance thru judgment is showing out big time.
As for you saying that tip tube angle isn't much, it's more than the amount you said looks bad, which is why I posted it- to show it actually isn't bad looking. Can you even follow your own criticism?
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#89
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My road bikes and gravel bike have 3" of saddle to bar drop. It's quite common to see, actually.
My touring bike has 2.5" of saddle to bar drop.
^ that is determined by body geometry- arm length, torso length, and leg length. Your ignorance thru judgment is showing out big time.
As for you saying that tip tube angle isn't much, it's more than the amount you said looks bad, which is why I posted it- to show it actually isn't bad looking. Can you even follow your own criticism?
My touring bike has 2.5" of saddle to bar drop.
^ that is determined by body geometry- arm length, torso length, and leg length. Your ignorance thru judgment is showing out big time.
As for you saying that tip tube angle isn't much, it's more than the amount you said looks bad, which is why I posted it- to show it actually isn't bad looking. Can you even follow your own criticism?
Back to your topic most of my road bikes have a similar saddle to bar drop though I am kind of liking something a little less droppy these days. Like you said it is all based in body geometry and of course your own comfort but that is again heavily based back into fit. I know people who are most comfortable in those more "aero" positions and I know people who are riding a chopper heck I have seen one guy who has long arms and bars probably 2 feet up and he rides a lot and seems comfortable.
#90
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Hi everyone,
I've done a ton of research, read the magazines, watched a lot of touring videos on YouTube and been to the bike shops. I'd like to find out what is popular among the crowd here for primarily road touring with a "Little bit of gravel or off-road" versus a straight "adventure bike", one that can do it all.
On the road side I'm leaning toward a Fairlight.
On the adventure side I'm leaning toward a Surly, Kona or Salsa, with Surly leading the pack.
I'm a big rider, 6' 1" and 220. I'm 64 and ride every day and backpack and hike all the time too. I used to work in bike shops for years when I was a young man so I know my way around bikes but have never "toured".
Money is not a concern. I want a bike that is rugged and can take the punishment at the sacrifice of some added weight. Steel is almost a must, aluminum maybe but carbon is out.
For those that tour on roads, what do you ride and for those that adventure bike, what do you ride. I'm talking long tours here, 800+ miles.
---
I've done a ton of research, read the magazines, watched a lot of touring videos on YouTube and been to the bike shops. I'd like to find out what is popular among the crowd here for primarily road touring with a "Little bit of gravel or off-road" versus a straight "adventure bike", one that can do it all.
On the road side I'm leaning toward a Fairlight.
On the adventure side I'm leaning toward a Surly, Kona or Salsa, with Surly leading the pack.
I'm a big rider, 6' 1" and 220. I'm 64 and ride every day and backpack and hike all the time too. I used to work in bike shops for years when I was a young man so I know my way around bikes but have never "toured".
Money is not a concern. I want a bike that is rugged and can take the punishment at the sacrifice of some added weight. Steel is almost a must, aluminum maybe but carbon is out.
For those that tour on roads, what do you ride and for those that adventure bike, what do you ride. I'm talking long tours here, 800+ miles.
---
Do you know where you like the bars to be relative to the seat? Do you have a preference for drops or upright bars? If you haven’t figured that out then the other stuff is putting the cart before the horse.
From my old and out of shape perspective 90% of popular bike design is skewed towards high energy output and responsive handling that 75% of the riding public doesn’t have the skills to utilize. I used to race in my 20’s and owned a bike shop during the 80’s and presently have a 26” wheel Surly LHT, Rivindell ClemSmithJr, Surly Cross Check, REI DRT 2.2. The CrossCheck has drop bars and the rest Jones bars.
I wouldn’t look to four panniers for light touring.
#91
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Thanks for the feedback folks.
Not interested in "ultra light" touring, at this point. I'll lose more pounds off my middle section instead of cutting weight off the bike. Off the body doesn't cost a dime.
Not a fan of titanium or carbon so that alone usually keeps costs in control....generally....
Not a fan of Rohloff.
I'll probably opt for a more lightly weighted 4x panniers setup instead of two heavy bags.
Agree with stardognine, I like wide tires so probably 37's minimum..and coupled with a steel frame it's a pretty smooth ride already. My daily exercise bike is a Wabi Special with 30's.
My goal is not break neck speed but take my time and enjoy the ride, nature and people. I like to fly fish and I'm a photo buff also so going to make time for that. That extra gear weight will be spread across the 4x panniers. When I backpack in the wilderness for 3 to 10 days I carry a 70L pack, which includes room for my camera and fishing gear. I go pretty light but that's carrying everything on my back. I figure spreading the weight around 4x panneirs would be best for balance on the bike. I'm all ears if folks think differently though. Remember, I'm a back packer but not a bike tourer so I have a lot to learn.
I'll probably do some "credit card" touring through some areas but will be camping in between.
Not interested in "ultra light" touring, at this point. I'll lose more pounds off my middle section instead of cutting weight off the bike. Off the body doesn't cost a dime.
Not a fan of titanium or carbon so that alone usually keeps costs in control....generally....
Not a fan of Rohloff.
I'll probably opt for a more lightly weighted 4x panniers setup instead of two heavy bags.
Agree with stardognine, I like wide tires so probably 37's minimum..and coupled with a steel frame it's a pretty smooth ride already. My daily exercise bike is a Wabi Special with 30's.
My goal is not break neck speed but take my time and enjoy the ride, nature and people. I like to fly fish and I'm a photo buff also so going to make time for that. That extra gear weight will be spread across the 4x panniers. When I backpack in the wilderness for 3 to 10 days I carry a 70L pack, which includes room for my camera and fishing gear. I go pretty light but that's carrying everything on my back. I figure spreading the weight around 4x panneirs would be best for balance on the bike. I'm all ears if folks think differently though. Remember, I'm a back packer but not a bike tourer so I have a lot to learn.
I'll probably do some "credit card" touring through some areas but will be camping in between.
#92
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I did a week in Glacier National Park with 55 lbs. gross weight. IIRC, the pack is 85L. My guide carried 78 lbs. gross in his big Dana Designs pack. That was way back in ‘03. Today, my tent and sleeping bag alone would shave probably 5 lbs.
#93
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When I did Glacier Waterton loop with ACA about a decade ago, I had a pair of Ortlieb front loaders (25 liters), pair or back loaders (40 liters) and a handlebar bag (roughly 5 liters) that summed up to about 59 pounds including the pannier weight and empty handlebar bag weight. I also had another rack top bag, but not citing the weight of that as that would exceed the 70 liter criteria you specified. This does not include the rack weights and does not include water bottle weights.
One day I got very bored waiting at the campground for others to roll in, since I had a luggage scale with me I measured the weights, thus have a rather precise weight for those specific bags. That is the only time that I have actually measured my bag weights on a trip.
ADDENDUM ADDED A DAY LATER:
Some people on this forum compare backpacking gear with bike touring gear. I am much more careful about weight with backpacking, as that weight is on my feet, not on wheels. This past summer did two weeks of backpacking. My 70 liter pack weighed about 42 pounds at the start, that included about 12 pounds of food (6 days of food, re-supplied another 6 days of food after a week) and about 3 pounds of water. The empty weight of that backpack is 5 pounds and 1 oz. Subtracting food, water, and pack weight, the contents of the 70 liter pack was about 22 pounds. Thus, for backpacking my weight is a lot lighter than the bike touring weight cited above.
One day I got very bored waiting at the campground for others to roll in, since I had a luggage scale with me I measured the weights, thus have a rather precise weight for those specific bags. That is the only time that I have actually measured my bag weights on a trip.
ADDENDUM ADDED A DAY LATER:
Some people on this forum compare backpacking gear with bike touring gear. I am much more careful about weight with backpacking, as that weight is on my feet, not on wheels. This past summer did two weeks of backpacking. My 70 liter pack weighed about 42 pounds at the start, that included about 12 pounds of food (6 days of food, re-supplied another 6 days of food after a week) and about 3 pounds of water. The empty weight of that backpack is 5 pounds and 1 oz. Subtracting food, water, and pack weight, the contents of the 70 liter pack was about 22 pounds. Thus, for backpacking my weight is a lot lighter than the bike touring weight cited above.
Last edited by Tourist in MSN; 12-13-22 at 04:37 AM.
#94
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Heh. I did that loop with the GF back in ‘09. Except for one three day trip, I hadn’t done a tour since’00. Roosville, Sparwood, Pincher Creek then Waterton Village, where we were supposed to have a rest day. We learned that the west side of Logan was not going to be open, so we rode to St. Mary the next day and then did a century around the park to W. Glacier and on to Sprague Creek Campground so we would at least have a chance to ride some of the west slope of GTS. The GF was so spent she walked into the men’s room by accident.
While the east side didn’t open, we were able to make it to Logan Pass sans gear and then back down. Had a great meal at the lodge that night. Headed back to Whitefish the day after that.
I don’t know how much weight I was carrying, but it was a lot. The 3P tent was 6.5 lbs. Fun trip.
While the east side didn’t open, we were able to make it to Logan Pass sans gear and then back down. Had a great meal at the lodge that night. Headed back to Whitefish the day after that.
I don’t know how much weight I was carrying, but it was a lot. The 3P tent was 6.5 lbs. Fun trip.
#95
Senior Member
Thread Starter
What is the weight you would carry in a 70L pack?
#96
Senior Member
Thread Starter
So what are you getting?
#98
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Wow, good for you. I never wanted more than 30-35 lbs.
Yeah, minus the camera and fishing gear my pack would weigh about the same.
#99
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The Faran frame with its steel fork is designed to handle a front rack and panniers.
#100
Newbie
Hi,
This thread was quite a ride! I found it because I am in somewhat similar questioning about purchase of a steel touring off-road capable bike and the Faran looked good though recently (and now with OP) the Secan may seem a better choice for me. I'd like to chime in but if this is better in a new thread just let me know.
As many experienced people have said here you need to know what kind of touring you'll be doing. Make sense, unless you are somewhat inexperienced. I tour in France but only for say 5 years, maybe 4 longish trips, all on road using a road bike. It was the only bike I had..etc..It wasn't overly laden because I wasn't cooking- so no or little food and no kitchen. Campsites and bistros for food. But, I felt frustrated not being able to go down farm lanes or mountain roads. So i have been reading and searching out the question of what bike would be good for me. I dont care if it's steel or alu but I dont want carbon. The Faran seemed like the high end of what i needed. I could probably do great with the Secan's loading capability given my style of touring. Of course my style may evolve and if I don't get a Faran or similar capable, I might regret the lighter bike's limitations. This pas summer I was on THIS (first pic) but dreamed of also being on THAT (look down into valley at winding dirt road):
(they woudn't let me post photos)
I have a budget, about 3k euros.I guess I need to borrow a bike or build up an old mountain bike (I have a bunch of parts and a used Aluminium frame I suppose I could complete to get something decent) and then try the new style of tour I dream about to see where the reality lies, THEN shop for a bike:
Secan- probably the kind of bike I need now,
Faran - give me more options for more weight
Krampus or similar - even more options/ very long heavy offroad mostly touring
But thanks Thanks for all the great information.And any ideas comments.
Regards, Peter
This thread was quite a ride! I found it because I am in somewhat similar questioning about purchase of a steel touring off-road capable bike and the Faran looked good though recently (and now with OP) the Secan may seem a better choice for me. I'd like to chime in but if this is better in a new thread just let me know.
As many experienced people have said here you need to know what kind of touring you'll be doing. Make sense, unless you are somewhat inexperienced. I tour in France but only for say 5 years, maybe 4 longish trips, all on road using a road bike. It was the only bike I had..etc..It wasn't overly laden because I wasn't cooking- so no or little food and no kitchen. Campsites and bistros for food. But, I felt frustrated not being able to go down farm lanes or mountain roads. So i have been reading and searching out the question of what bike would be good for me. I dont care if it's steel or alu but I dont want carbon. The Faran seemed like the high end of what i needed. I could probably do great with the Secan's loading capability given my style of touring. Of course my style may evolve and if I don't get a Faran or similar capable, I might regret the lighter bike's limitations. This pas summer I was on THIS (first pic) but dreamed of also being on THAT (look down into valley at winding dirt road):
(they woudn't let me post photos)
I have a budget, about 3k euros.I guess I need to borrow a bike or build up an old mountain bike (I have a bunch of parts and a used Aluminium frame I suppose I could complete to get something decent) and then try the new style of tour I dream about to see where the reality lies, THEN shop for a bike:
Secan- probably the kind of bike I need now,
Faran - give me more options for more weight
Krampus or similar - even more options/ very long heavy offroad mostly touring
But thanks Thanks for all the great information.And any ideas comments.
Regards, Peter
Last edited by Peterparis; 02-17-24 at 04:06 PM.