Burton

When cantilever brakes were first introduced, they were considered exotic and were used mainly on high-end touring bikes.



When Shimano's "V" brakes were first introduced, they were initially referred to as direct-pull cantilevers.


One of the main differences is that traditional cantilevers have a variable mechanical advantage whereas V-brakes had a fixed mechanical advantage.


IMO the popularity of V-brakes is largely due to the fact that they can be installed and setup by just about anyone. The proper setup of a cantilever requires a skilled bicycle mechanic with experience in that area.



Consumers have for the most part consistently traded performance for price and convenience in just about thing you can think of - including bicycle accessories.


Magura's hydraulic brakes and Shimano's XTR and XT parallel push V-Brakes outperformed anything else on the market in braking power. But not in price.


So performance obviously isn't the only criteria. And brakes are like everything else. There's a wide range of quality in both V-brakes and traditional cantilever designs. Some are junk and some perform extraordinarily well. A decent cantilever set up properly can easily outperform any of the plastic coated stamped steel V-brakes found on most department store bikes.


No - I have no particularly bias. Personally I own bikes with all of them including those XTR parallel push V-brakes mentioned. They all work well if properly installed and maintained.

himespau 

I have a set of old xt canti's. In my case the plastic cover just made it easier to adjust which hole on the bike the spring went into without taking the brake entirely off the bike. I think 2 or 3 of the plastic covers have broken making the adjustments a lot more of a pain (but part of the pain is the way my front rack attaches making me take it off when I want to adjust which hole the spring is in), but they're still perfectly usable. This isn't the case with yours? Sounds like a dumb design (not that the design on mine was any better. A few extra cents for them to have made that plate out of metal and the brakes would still be awesome.

TurbineBlade

+1. Once I learned how to set-up center pull cantilever brakes I generally prefer them >> v-brakes. V-brakes have terrible modulation and are not adjustable -- basically a center pull cantilever stuck in the extremely high leverage/extremely low travel position. ..not a true mechanic's brake . They are easy to set-up though, no doubt about it.

Tough break on those brakes! For my $, I actually prefer the hated tektro oryx over other cantilever brakes. They're cheap and work great. The CR 720's are decent, but interfere with my front rack and have very low leverage with mountain levers (but great travel). Hook yourself up

fietsbob

perhaps before most people were born, reading this , ..

The Data Book, starts showing them in the 1946 section.

MileHighMark

I don't always run cantilevers, but when I do, I look for the following features:

• No plastic bits
• Minimally exposed springs
• V-style pad mounting (i.e., no post-style pads)
• Self-contained pivots (i.e., brake does not rotate directly on canti boss/stud)

TurbineBlade

What book is this? Is it viewable online? It sounds interesting.

Stay thirsty, my friends.

fietsbob

Data book , originally '83 Japan, of old French drawings
like those done by Daniel Rebour.. famed illustrator..
Reprinted in '98, by Bicycle Books of SF..

ISBN 1-892495-01-5

Burton

LOL Thanks for the reference - I didn't realize they dated back that far. Regardless, I never saw a pair up close and personal myself until sometime in the 1980's and they were still considered a specialty item at that point.


But yikes - I can remember when things like flush toilets and showers and color TVs were new and unusual too


Yeah - we've got more 'stuff' today, I'm just not convinced we're more civilized .

AEO

no matter how good the cantis are, they have a flawed design from the start. The problem is the way the cable gets anchored to the frame. Any front end flex results in brake power changes that cause pulsing. No other brake on a bike does that.

Having used some tektro CR-720 on a bike with 1-1/4 steerer that shuddered no matter how the pads and brakes were adjusted, I find that cantis are just a waste of time.

LesterOfPuppets

Guess I've been lucky. I've had plenty of canti equipped bikes and none exhibitted shudder. I even have one with cable stop in stem ATM.

My old Raleigh Sports had shudder, almost seemed like it was from fork blade flex in that case, but it didn't have cantis.

Burton

Are you really going to make a decision for life based on a poor introduction with a $30 brake?


I test drove a Kona Jake SE last year and the cantis sucked big time - at least compared to the cantis on the bike I normally drive. All that told me is that they were a poor choice to stick on an $1,100 bike and would be the first thing to upgrade - even if it meant only the pads.

And that's exactly the kind of info I'd be passing on to anyone potentially interested in buying the bike.

AEO

CR-720 is one of the best cantis out there, and they worked perfectly on my CX bike. For some reason, they worked TOO well on my XC bike. When the cantis grip too hard, that's when you get shuddering.

If cantis work, they work, but when they don't, nothing will fix it. This is unlike other types of brakes available, where their problems are fixable with adjustment.

TurbineBlade

You're entitled to your opinion, but you should realize that v-brakes are just a cantilever brake for idiots (in terms of adjustment, or lack thereof). V-brakes suffer from many things too, like barrel adjusters that barely do anything, crappy noodles with inner plastic liners that crack and cause friction, stirrups that bore out and fail, and **** for pad travel -- and you're powerless to do anything about it.

Learn to adjust cantilever brakes and mate them with proper levers and you'll probably like them a lot more. All my v-brakes sit in my parts bin, though I used to swear by them. Need any?

TurbineBlade

Simple solution - https://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1805

Shuttering merits no further discussion. Actually, I had one bike with mild shuttering that was never a big enough deal to bother with -- bike still stopped extremely well.

AEO

nope, V-brakes do not require a solid frame or fork to work well. The cable can run entirely along the cable housing.
This is why cantis are flawed. They require some fixation point on the frame and if the frame flexes, you get a change in braking power.

xenologer

to eliminate flex, use a Brake Booster, have them on all my cantis and works wonders.


actualy, as much as I love cantis, I had been thinking that perhaps a brake lever with adjustible mechanical advantage could enable a v-brake to work nicely.... only problem is that the only such levers i know of (avid speed dial) have short 2.5finger levers, thus safeguarding me from the dark side.

Or does anyone know of an adjustible lever that has old styled 4-5 finger long levers?

AEO

brake booster + fork mounted cable anchor, various pads, shudder shudder shudder.

Burton

So just out of curiosity, how exactly did you solve the shuddering problem on your XC bike and positively identify it as a cantilever brake issue and not anything to do with worn brake bushings or a damaged rim or a front fork problem?


I'm interested - seriously!

Dstreelm

I just switched my commuter over from V-Brakes to cantis for one big reason, centering.

No matter what I did I could not get my old v-brakes to center, I played with the adjustment screw and the mounting holes but one brake would alway overpower the other, pulling the weaker one into the sidewall causing rub.

Now that I have cantis, one side doesn't affect the other, the return spring doesn't fight the one on the other side and they are perfectly centered, no rub and work beautifully.

I am also using a very short straddle cable possible, creating a very high mechanical advantage and awesome stopping power.

cyccommute 

I've had 13 bikes equipped with cantilevers of various levels of quality from the lowest Shimano to Paul's. Of the 13, 4 have been on road bikes including two touring bikes and two tandems while the other 9 were on mountain bikes. I've never had a single one shudder or have braking problems...and I live where gravity gets you moving quickly very easily. On one of the tandems, I even removed the drum brake and left the cantilevers to handle all of the braking duties. There's really nothing wrong with them if they are set up properly.

Now I have had brakes that squeal horribly...the Avid Shorty 4s were almost the worst offenders. The worst squealers I've ever run were the XT linear brakes. I'm sure the echos of those brakes are still reverberating around the mountains of Colorado.

FastJake

If one screw keeps overpowering the other the simple solution is to tighten both of them so both sides have some real tension to work with.

I don't understand the complaints of poor modulation on V-brakes. It just takes a trained hand to operate them. I put Kool Stop pads on my V-brake MTB to make them even stronger. I like being able to jam the brakes with a couple fingers and stop on a dime, rather than hanging on for dear life with a canti and still barely able to lift the rear wheel with the front brake.

rothenfield1

Point well taken, the discussion about brakes can get contentious. I would emphasize your point about the ease of set-up and maintenance of ‘linear pull’ brakes and simple mechanical advantage. Yes, that; and they are probably cheaper to produce. Conceptually, I prefer the idea of a cable centered over the wheel providing a quick and even distribution of braking force to the pads and rims. However; in reality, IMO that rarely happens. I like them, but it takes an experienced person to set up a canti properly, and side-pulls are practically idiot-proof and just as, if not more, powerful.

Sixty Fiver

Ran XTR cantis on my hybrid tourer... only way to stop faster was to drive into a parked vehicle and have many sets of cantis in use and have used them singly up front on fixed gear bikes with no lack of stopping power.

The 55 year old Mafacs here work just fine and will probably last another 55.

Sixty Fiver

Shorty 4's were the bane of my existence as well... run XT linears on my mtb with no issues and they are mated to Avid levers and this can make a difference.

The XTR linear pull is also known to be pretty noisy until you pair it with XT or LX levers... seems like a small change in the lever makes quite a difference.

rothenfield1

I’m destined to lose this argument up against such powerful forces. However, running out to buy cantis because of the glow of some of the best bike mechs on this forum may not be a good idea for the novice. Cantilever brakes may have the braking power of side-pulls when properly set-up, but they require a lot of things to work properly together to be as good as they can be. Side-pull brakes are pretty idiot-proof and the leverage achieved from the short pull of the cable from the side is why they replaced cantis on MTB’s. That and because they are cheaper to produce, granted.


I feel conflicted because I should be on the other side of this argument.