cyccommute 

Both of your problems are more easily explained by usage issues than manufacturing issues. A stem leak is a relatively common issue with both Presta and Schrader for different reasons. Schrader valves are more prone to cuts of the rubber, especially if the valve isn’t perpendicular to the rim. Presta valves tend to tear out of the tube grommet especially if the stem is rough handled or the tube is pumped up with a hand pump that is perpendicular to the stem or if the pump chuck is pulled off the stem while there is pressure in the hose.

Small, slow leaks are a fact of life where I live and I would never blame the tube especially if the tube is inflated in the tire. We have goat heads in addition to the glass and other road debris that people elsewhere have. Punctures on the outside part of the tube should always be assumed to be due to something going through the tire but leaving no evidence behind.

cyccommute 

As someone who with vast experience in flat repair and has made something of a science of figuring out what causes flats, I have never seen a tube of any kind fail at a seam. There is only one “seam” on a tube to begin with. That is the seam where the two ends of the rubber tubing that is used to make the tube are joined together. If it fails at that seam, it would tear and blow out without the tire coming off the rim. That isn’t something that happens often.

The lines you see on a tube are from the curing mold and have nothing to do with the structural integrity of the tube. They are not “seams”.

In addition, no one tests each tube coming off a production line. That would take hours per batch and be cost prohibitive. Any quality assurance is done by random sample testing…even from your supposed higher quality tubes.

Nobody said anything about tires. The discussion is about tubes.

All the “premium” tubes I’ve ever used were actually thinner than cheap tubes and more likely to diffuse air. All tubes diffuse air. Thicker ones are slower at it but premium tubes are generally lighter than cheap tubes with thinner walls over all. It’s a weight thing.

cyccommute 

Yes, as long as the patch is good. The issue is that many people don’t use patches that work properly. If you want a patch to last, just use Rema TipTop. I’ve put as many as 30 patches on a tube and the only thing that killed the tube was the valve separated which I blame more on user error than the tube. That said, 30 patches is a very old tube so something was bound to fail.

That’s just penny-wise and pound foolish. A box of 100 Rema patches cost me $15. A can of glue about the same. A can of glue can be used through 3 or 4 boxes of patches. At 15¢ each for the patch and about 5¢ for the glue, that 20¢ per patch vs $9. Those 30 patches cost me $6. 30 tubes at $9 each is $270.

JohnDThompson 

Bike shops don't patch tubes because they'd have to charge for the labor, which makes patching a tube cost more than simply replacing it. If you're doing the labor yourself, you can (as @cyccommute suggests above) save a great deal by patching tubes instead of using a new tube every time you get a flat. And it's better for the environment. Butyl rubber takes forever to decompose in a landfill.

I have a local shop save the punctured tubes from flat repairs to be patched and used by our clients at the charity bike shop/community farm/jobs skills program where I volunteer and labor is free. Our shop is entirely supported by donations, and our clients (homeless people, people recently released from prison, and chronically unemployed people) learn jobs skills on the farm. After putting in 15 hours of work on the farm, they get a (donated) bike, and we repair and maintain their bikes free of charge as long as we have the necessary parts to do so. Patched tubes are standard fare for flat repairs. Any tubes that cannot be patched, we give to the farm, and they use them to tie back plants, bundle stalks, etc. Very little gets wasted.

rumrunn6

yes & I do. my MTB has a patch on each the front & rear, for a cpl years now. I check them twice a year when I swap the studded tires on & off





th trick is finding the hole, right?

Jeff Neese

Sure they do. From Schwalbe's web site https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/tubes/all
"All tubes are inflated and stored for 24 hours in order to test for air pressure retention. Afterwards each, individual tube undergoes a careful visual inspection."

Continental also tests each tube. That's why they're more reliable, and also more expensive. You get what you pay for, especially with tubes and tires.

79pmooney

+1 If I were given some sweet wheels but they were schraeder, I'd epoxy or silicon in an adopter and always use presta.

wolfchild

Having two different types of valves gives cyclists an opportunity to have debates and arguments on bikeforums about which type of valve is better.

wolfchild

Actually there is third type of valve called Dunlop valve.

Kapusta

We don't need that nonsense in America.

GlennR

They should be as careful when making condoms. The ramifications are longer lasting.

cyccommute 

Okay. I was mistaken. However that isn’t going to make any difference in the tube’s resistance to punctures. Tubes holding air straight out of the box has never been a problem in my experience.

Trakhak

Most bike stores everywhere use and have always used the least expensive tubes available in bulk for routine replacements of punctured tubes. With the possible exception of bad batches of tubes (never saw any myself in 20 years of working in bike stores), the failure rate of tubes installed by bike mechanics in stores is vanishingly low. Funny how the same tubes always have a substantially higher failure rate when installed by customers.

Chuck M 

Right now it is just a barely an argument over the quality of tubes based on name brand. Once it evolves into a debate over which valve is better, it will really take off.

gpburdell

You ignore the opportunity cost of the time invested in performing the patching and swapping the tube back. Convenience has a cost, and the value of free-time depends on the individual and their situation.

So sure, if I had abundant free time and flatted so often that the cost of tubes caused a discernible disturbance to my finances, then I too might patch vs replace. That's not my situation though and the cost of a tube once or twice a year is immaterial to me.

Dan Burkhart 

And a fourth called Fillmore. https://www.reservewheels.com/fillmore-tubeless-valves
Actually, it is tubeless only, and although I have never tried them, I think I will.

Kapusta

Do what you want, its your money….. but you can probably patch a tube in the time it takes to buy a new one.

You don’t have to do any extra swapping out. You keep a spare tube on hand and use it when you get a flat, Then patch the flat one at the time and place of your convenience and it becomes the spare.

Maelochs

Right ... the whole idea that you swap a tube on the road and then patch the old one and put it back in ... why would you do that? I patch the old one and put it in by seat bag for the next time I get a flat. No extra tire changes necessary.

True it can take as much as five minutes to patch a tube, if the hole is really small .... I might have to immerse it in water---and that is Really hard, exceedingly time-consuming, back-breakingly laborious. To me though, t is really worthwhile because the sort of invisible punctures thus located often also reveal the location of that hidden bit of tire wire which will puncture the new tube, and every other tube I use, until I scrap and flex the tire enough to get the wire to poke out so I can grab it with tweezers.

I usually buy a eight or a dozen tubes, about every five years or seven years .... I keep two on each bike (which is a dozen right there) and a bunch more on the shelf, some patched, some new, all ready to be used as needed. I buy patches and glue in bulk online every few years .... and for some reason I get more flats than any two riders I know (bad flat-karma?) Most of you who seem to get maybe two flats in every 5000 kms .... you could get by on a seventh of what I use.

Maelochs

Anyway ... just for the sake of controversy and longevity---what sort of lube do you use on your valve stems?

Or ... if that is too inane even for BF ......

Valve caps, yes or no?

ThermionicScott 

I learned something thanks to this thread!

Maelochs

Yeah ... even though we are not Supposed to learn anything here, sometimes it happens.

Three times the price is a lot for a brand-new product which justifies its cost with longevity---you Expect it will last the rest of my life, but they have only been on the market for a short time so .....

But they sound like an improvement over regular vales if they really never clog, the seal never wears, etc ..... I'd like some unsolicited testimony from third-party sources before I invest, but they sound good .......

ThermionicScott 

Looks like it's basically a Presta valve, except they use the whole valve stem as the "core", so you don't have the pinch point that is the usual valve core:

rumrunn6

oh definitely, if that wasn't rhetorical ...

Kapusta

So the valve and stem are one unit?

So now instead of replacing a clogged $1 valve in about a minute, you replace a clogged $25 valve/stem combo that requires you to remove and remount the tire.

cyccommute 

The cost of patch time is minimal. Even at my high hourly rate, patch time doesn’t cost $9. I don’t generally patch on the road and just replace the tube (with a previously patched tube) just like you do. But there are instances where I’ve flatted more than once on a ride. There are instances where I’ve flatted more than 10 times on a ride.

Count yourself luck then. That 30 patches on a tube above is only one tube. Every tube I own that has been in a tire…and I have a couple of dozen of them on hand right now, in addition to the 30 that are mounted… has at least one patch and most have far more. I’ve flatted on goat heads in every month of the year. Fixing flats is just part of riding here. I know how much a box of 100 patches cost and how long a can of vulcanizing fluid lasts based on experience. That cost estimate I gave above is only for one tube that, granted, was probably silly to patch that many times. But 3 boxes of patches (i.e. 300 patches) and the time involved in fixing the flats is far cheaper than $2700. Ain’t no amount of “convenience” that is worth that much!