Wheelchairs in the bike lane?
05-12-09, 09:50 PM
#27
Domestic Domestique
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05-12-09, 09:50 PM
#28
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Seems dangerous. I say go for it. You have to go into the traffic lanes to get around cyclists anyway, shouldn't be that big of a deal if you take the task seriously and don't wait until the last second. Although my experience driving on the interstate tells me most people have trouble with that concept.
Handcycles are cool, I wouldn't mind seeing them on the bike path at all. All of our bike paths are on side streets, there is almost no point to them.
I saw a couple riding their power chairs down the mup, blocking the whole thing. I was driving my car down a road nearby at the time. I was going to go get on my bike and explain the benefits of drafting to them, but lethargy got the best of me. At the speed they were going, old people with walkers would have to pass them on the grass, they would never be able to get out of the way of a bike or a jogger in time.
Handcycles are cool, I wouldn't mind seeing them on the bike path at all. All of our bike paths are on side streets, there is almost no point to them.
I saw a couple riding their power chairs down the mup, blocking the whole thing. I was driving my car down a road nearby at the time. I was going to go get on my bike and explain the benefits of drafting to them, but lethargy got the best of me. At the speed they were going, old people with walkers would have to pass them on the grass, they would never be able to get out of the way of a bike or a jogger in time.
05-12-09, 09:50 PM
#29
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Put the city council folks in a powered wheelchair and let them experience the problem.
Share the road!
Share the road!
05-12-09, 11:03 PM
#31
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as an architect i'll bring up the issue of ramping and curb cuts at raised sidewalks as a requirement under the current "accessible path of travel requirements" of the American with Disabilities Act. those things cost way too much money for what they are. if you can get away from using them by drawing a path of travel into the street you just saved yourself part of the budget...
...to me this just sounds like a way the city could get around Federal requirements. value engineering at the cost of public safety.
i just dont understand why the "Barrier Busters" aren't lobbying for improved sidewalks!!! It doesn't take much for someone to go out with a tape measure, laser level and a wheel chair and take a trip around the city to come up with evidence for a class action lawsuit or something against the city in question.
maybe Mike Devereaux just gets a thrill "driving" his wheelchair in traffic.
i bet he just wants more open space to throttle that electric wheel chair into overdrive.
...to me this just sounds like a way the city could get around Federal requirements. value engineering at the cost of public safety.
i just dont understand why the "Barrier Busters" aren't lobbying for improved sidewalks!!! It doesn't take much for someone to go out with a tape measure, laser level and a wheel chair and take a trip around the city to come up with evidence for a class action lawsuit or something against the city in question.
maybe Mike Devereaux just gets a thrill "driving" his wheelchair in traffic.
i bet he just wants more open space to throttle that electric wheel chair into overdrive.
05-12-09, 11:16 PM
#32
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Has anyone suggested demanding the side-walks be repaired? It's probably the best solution. As for addressing wheelchairs in bicycle lanes, it seems OK to me; the lanes are typically shared by skaters already, anyway: cyclists have no more "right" to it than others. Anything is a matter of being reasonable and not trying to be very absolutist: The point of bike-lanes is to separate slower-moving, more vulnerable traffic (i.e., bicycles) from heavy, fast, motorized vehicles (i.e., cars, trucks, buses). By my thinking, a wheelchair is more in line with a bicycle than with a Buick, and may benefit from using a bike-lane rather than a sidewalk when the latter is narrow/crowded/damaged/etc. As for "speed," it's a bit of an unfair criterion: neither are slow bikers thrown onto the sidewalk, nor hardcore racers permitted on freeways.
05-13-09, 12:01 AM
#33
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I saw a couple riding their power chairs down the mup, blocking the whole thing. I was driving my car down a road nearby at the time. I was going to go get on my bike and explain the benefits of drafting to them, but lethargy got the best of me. At the speed they were going, old people with walkers would have to pass them on the grass, they would never be able to get out of the way of a bike or a jogger in time.
Also, just ban cars, then anyone can be entitled to the road without the risk of being run down!
Honestly, they should try and have the sidewalks fixed, then go for bicycle lane usage if that does not work. I do not see a problem if they are abiding by the same laws, not randomly popping out in front of cyclists causing "oh shi" moments.
05-13-09, 03:02 AM
#34
Cycle Year Round
Be careful of what you ask for. In Honolulu, the primary (only route) east out of Honolulu was reworked and widened (major project), new road surface, sidewalks and bike lanes. When it was finished, fire hydrants had been placed in the middle of the sidewalks. Wheelchairs could not get around them. The solution was to put sidewalk bulb outs into the bike lanes (even more dangerous than just the standard deadly bike lanes). Riding at night, it was extremely hard to see the bulb out = sudden endo.
05-13-09, 06:58 AM
#35
L T X B O M P F A N S R
And besides, it's not for you to judge how people decide to get around, even if they are fully mobile. Cars, bikes, walking on two feet, whatever.
Obviously, cars are better at some applications, bikes are better at others, and walking is better at others still. You're sounding foolish and sanctimonious.
People in wheel chairs face difficulties that most people don't even realize. Is it so hard to give them a break and let them use the bike lane if it's easier for them? Would it really make things so much worse for you?
05-13-09, 07:13 AM
#36
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Where do we draw the line?
Is a hand cycle a wheelchair or a bike?
Is a recumbent a wheelchair or a bike?
Is an adult tricycle with chair style seat a wheelchair or a bike?
Is a wheelchair racer https://howtoadapt.com/RacingWheelchair/1.jpg , a wheelchair or a bike?
I would side with, letting the operator decide.
Is a hand cycle a wheelchair or a bike?
Is a recumbent a wheelchair or a bike?
Is an adult tricycle with chair style seat a wheelchair or a bike?
Is a wheelchair racer https://howtoadapt.com/RacingWheelchair/1.jpg , a wheelchair or a bike?
I would side with, letting the operator decide.
Speedo
05-13-09, 08:50 AM
#37
----
Where do we draw the line?
Is a hand cycle a wheelchair or a bike?
Is a recumbent a wheelchair or a bike?
Is an adult tricycle with chair style seat a wheelchair or a bike?
Is a wheelchair racer https://howtoadapt.com/RacingWheelchair/1.jpg , a wheelchair or a bike?
I would side with, letting the operator decide.
Is a hand cycle a wheelchair or a bike?
Is a recumbent a wheelchair or a bike?
Is an adult tricycle with chair style seat a wheelchair or a bike?
Is a wheelchair racer https://howtoadapt.com/RacingWheelchair/1.jpg , a wheelchair or a bike?
I would side with, letting the operator decide.
Yeah, I don't really mind it at all. I have encountered one wheel chair in the bike lane- only problem - it was going the wrong way. I'd prefer they went with the traffic flow.
It's not like I see tons of people in wheelchairs on the sidewalk and how many of them might actually prefer or feel comfortable in a bike lane means we're not talking big numbers here.
BUT if I start seeing Segways, roller bladers, joggers etc in bike lanes then it becomes another issue.
Now the issue that it becomes may not, in the long run, be all that negative. What I mean by that is it's a kind of take back the streets thing. As more and more alternative vehicles take to the streets we'll start pushing the cars out. In other words, a bike lane won't suffice. We'll maybe end up with a "car lane" and everybody else can have the rest of the road or cars will start to be restricted from certain areas entirely. As in this article in yesterday's NY Times: In German Suburb Life Goes on Without Cars
05-13-09, 09:42 AM
#38
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
I agree, and not just for wheelchair users. I've seen more than my share of people tripping over pieces of sidewalk. Sidewalks that are that bad are basically impassible if you're in a wheelchair since you can't step over the really lumpy parts.
05-13-09, 10:07 AM
#39
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Yeah of course they should be welcome to use the bike lane and roadway even when a sidewalk is present. The individual should make the judgment which is safest and practicable for any given stretch of highway.
The whole 'fix the sidewalk' argument is bogus. Yes they should be fixed, but that takes time and money and those in wheelchairs need to get around today.
The whole 'fix the sidewalk' argument is bogus. Yes they should be fixed, but that takes time and money and those in wheelchairs need to get around today.
05-13-09, 10:11 AM
#40
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05-13-09, 12:47 PM
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I see no problems with it. Let 'em join us in the bike lane.
I lived in the city in question for about a year, and it does have some terrible sidewalks that I'd hate to ride a wheelchair on.
I lived in the city in question for about a year, and it does have some terrible sidewalks that I'd hate to ride a wheelchair on.
05-13-09, 05:28 PM
#42
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There is a guy in this area uses a powered wheelchair in the bike lanes and occasionally in the right lane. It's equipped with an orange flag and reflectors. At the speed he goes it would not be safe for him to take the sidewalk. Motorists are much more careful around him (passing more slowly and giving a wider berth) than they are for cyclists.
I checked the Idaho Statutes and found this:
I checked the Idaho Statutes and found this:
56-702. Right to full and free use of streets, highways, public buildings and public facilities. The blind, the visually handicapped, the hearing impaired, and the otherwise physically disabled have the same right as the able-bodied to the full and free use of the streets, highways, sidewalks, walkways, public buildings, public facilities, and other public places.
18-5811. Action required to avoid accident or injury to disabled person -- Prohibited intentional actions -- Penalties.(1) Any person, whether a pedestrian, operating a vehicle or otherwise, who approaches an individual appearing to be a disabled person or lawfully using an assistance device or assistance dog, and who:
(a)Intentionally fails to stop, change course, speak or take such other action as is necessary to avoid any accident or injury to the disabled person, the assistance device or dog, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six (6) months, or by a fine of not less than fifty dollars ($50.00) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both.
18-5811. Action required to avoid accident or injury to disabled person -- Prohibited intentional actions -- Penalties.(1) Any person, whether a pedestrian, operating a vehicle or otherwise, who approaches an individual appearing to be a disabled person or lawfully using an assistance device or assistance dog, and who:
(a)Intentionally fails to stop, change course, speak or take such other action as is necessary to avoid any accident or injury to the disabled person, the assistance device or dog, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six (6) months, or by a fine of not less than fifty dollars ($50.00) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both.
05-13-09, 08:32 PM
#43
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Unfortunately, some places (Portland, for example), once a "bike lane" is built, we lose the right to use the rest of the road. So cars don't "tolerate us in their lanes." As I said in my first post, I'm fine with turning bike lanes into MUP's as long as cyclists are allowed to use the normal travel lanes whenever we think it's best.
05-13-09, 08:48 PM
#44
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Bicycles are, (in most places,) defined as vehicles; EAPMDs are not.
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05-13-09, 09:19 PM
#45
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You can't say wheelchairs shouldn't be allowed in bike lanes but bikes should be allowed in roadways without sounding like a fool.
05-13-09, 09:30 PM
#46
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Yeah, I don't really mind it at all. I have encountered one wheel chair in the bike lane- only problem - it was going the wrong way. I'd prefer they went with the traffic flow.
It's not like I see tons of people in wheelchairs on the sidewalk and how many of them might actually prefer or feel comfortable in a bike lane means we're not talking big numbers here.
BUT if I start seeing Segways, roller bladers, joggers etc in bike lanes then it becomes another issue.
Now the issue that it becomes may not, in the long run, be all that negative. What I mean by that is it's a kind of take back the streets thing. As more and more alternative vehicles take to the streets we'll start pushing the cars out. In other words, a bike lane won't suffice. We'll maybe end up with a "car lane" and everybody else can have the rest of the road or cars will start to be restricted from certain areas entirely. As in this article in yesterday's NY Times: In German Suburb Life Goes on Without Cars
It's not like I see tons of people in wheelchairs on the sidewalk and how many of them might actually prefer or feel comfortable in a bike lane means we're not talking big numbers here.
BUT if I start seeing Segways, roller bladers, joggers etc in bike lanes then it becomes another issue.
Now the issue that it becomes may not, in the long run, be all that negative. What I mean by that is it's a kind of take back the streets thing. As more and more alternative vehicles take to the streets we'll start pushing the cars out. In other words, a bike lane won't suffice. We'll maybe end up with a "car lane" and everybody else can have the rest of the road or cars will start to be restricted from certain areas entirely. As in this article in yesterday's NY Times: In German Suburb Life Goes on Without Cars
05-14-09, 05:09 AM
#47
Dogs like me.
People in wheelchairs are rightfully classified as pedestrians. If people in wheelchairs cannot use the sidewalks due to disrepair, the correct response is to REPAIR THE SIDEWALKS, not to put wheelchairs in the street.
People in wheelchairs often suffer from multiple disabilities that not only affect their ambulatory ability, but also their balance, sensory and cognitive functions. Putting people with these levels of deficiencies on the streets is dangerous for everyone involved.
People in wheelchairs often suffer from multiple disabilities that not only affect their ambulatory ability, but also their balance, sensory and cognitive functions. Putting people with these levels of deficiencies on the streets is dangerous for everyone involved.
05-14-09, 06:13 AM
#48
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If bike lanes are going to be MUP's, we need to have the clear and unambiguous right not to use them.
05-14-09, 06:48 AM
#49
Twincities MN
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05-14-09, 06:49 AM
#50
Twincities MN
People in wheelchairs are rightfully classified as pedestrians. If people in wheelchairs cannot use the sidewalks due to disrepair, the correct response is to REPAIR THE SIDEWALKS, not to put wheelchairs in the street.
People in wheelchairs often suffer from multiple disabilities that not only affect their ambulatory ability, but also their balance, sensory and cognitive functions. Putting people with these levels of deficiencies on the streets is dangerous for everyone involved.
People in wheelchairs often suffer from multiple disabilities that not only affect their ambulatory ability, but also their balance, sensory and cognitive functions. Putting people with these levels of deficiencies on the streets is dangerous for everyone involved.
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