Getting the most value out of your rotors
#51
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Calling that rotor "safe" is like calling a tire with a huge gash in it "safe" because the boot seems to be holding. Safe or not, I think we can all agree that the rotor is pretty much at the end of its useful life. I for one would want to replace it before the next ride.
#52
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I would frame that rotor along with the photos in this thread. Hang it right in my living room.
Who is the rider? I want to follow him on Strava.
-Tim-
Who is the rider? I want to follow him on Strava.
-Tim-
#53
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#54
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My grip is a little torn, am I safe?
In the big scheme of things, is downhill singletrack riding a relatively 'safe' activity anyway? Riding a bike and more so off road and even more so in a down-hill is a VERY dynamic event based on feedback and experience. Everything is changing multiple times a second all the time, don't you just accept it and move long with what you are given? People are capable of adjusting to changing risk and adversity during the ride. If one of my brakes failed during a ride, it would take me 2 seconds to realize it, a moment to look at it and assess the carnage and impact and then adapt and decide if i can move on. No different than if you hit a section of wet leaves, ride a bike down hill with cantilever brakes in the wet, loose rocks, random rogue sticks that wedge themselves in moving parts, a tree down, a stream running across the path and so on.
I think this whole thing is way blown out of proportion and actually strange.
Three out of ten car accidents occur within one mile of your home. I park at the shopping center and ride my bike home from there. I am 30% safer!
In the big scheme of things, is downhill singletrack riding a relatively 'safe' activity anyway? Riding a bike and more so off road and even more so in a down-hill is a VERY dynamic event based on feedback and experience. Everything is changing multiple times a second all the time, don't you just accept it and move long with what you are given? People are capable of adjusting to changing risk and adversity during the ride. If one of my brakes failed during a ride, it would take me 2 seconds to realize it, a moment to look at it and assess the carnage and impact and then adapt and decide if i can move on. No different than if you hit a section of wet leaves, ride a bike down hill with cantilever brakes in the wet, loose rocks, random rogue sticks that wedge themselves in moving parts, a tree down, a stream running across the path and so on.
I think this whole thing is way blown out of proportion and actually strange.
Three out of ten car accidents occur within one mile of your home. I park at the shopping center and ride my bike home from there. I am 30% safer!
Last edited by u235; 01-16-19 at 12:46 PM.
#55
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I can see why some folks might get agitated about the slight extra risk of continuing one’s ride with the rotor as pictured,
OTOH, few (if any) seasoned or even mildly aggressive riding mountain bikers I know would even give this a second thought. Stuff breaks all the time, and you learn to ride with it as best you can til you get back.
I have finished rides one brake short. This guy still had two functioning brakes.
The sanctimony and hand wringing on BF can be depressing. Take a perfectly humoorous and awesome post and turn it into a judgemental pile on. Not the folks I want to ride with.
The guys in the OP would fit in well with my crew.
OTOH, few (if any) seasoned or even mildly aggressive riding mountain bikers I know would even give this a second thought. Stuff breaks all the time, and you learn to ride with it as best you can til you get back.
I have finished rides one brake short. This guy still had two functioning brakes.
The sanctimony and hand wringing on BF can be depressing. Take a perfectly humoorous and awesome post and turn it into a judgemental pile on. Not the folks I want to ride with.
The guys in the OP would fit in well with my crew.
#56
Clark W. Griswold
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Holy using the wrong meme, Batman. The point that was made was quite apt for your situation
Stuff isn't safe because it magically hasn't totally failed stuff is safe because it is working at or near 100% and is not damaged or broken in anyway. The cord to my toaster is frayed and wires are sticking out but it is safe because my house hasn't burned down yet!
Stuff isn't safe because it magically hasn't totally failed stuff is safe because it is working at or near 100% and is not damaged or broken in anyway. The cord to my toaster is frayed and wires are sticking out but it is safe because my house hasn't burned down yet!
#57
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Holy using the wrong meme, Batman. The point that was made was quite apt for your situation
Stuff isn't safe because it magically hasn't totally failed stuff is safe because it is working at or near 100% and is not damaged or broken in anyway. The cord to my toaster is frayed and wires are sticking out but it is safe because my house hasn't burned down yet!
Stuff isn't safe because it magically hasn't totally failed stuff is safe because it is working at or near 100% and is not damaged or broken in anyway. The cord to my toaster is frayed and wires are sticking out but it is safe because my house hasn't burned down yet!
While I am not surprised that you can't understand the difference, it is sad that you remain mired in such a confused state.
I truly hope that you get better some time.
#58
Senior Member
Let's see... In both cases of booted tire and that rotor, the structure is compromised. It's only luck that is holding things together - and that may be good enough if you're limping back to the trailhead. If the booted tire fails, the rider will probably crash. If the brake pad catches on the structurally-compromised rotor, the rider will probably crash -- AND the frame will probably be ruined.
So yeah, I see how they are completely different examples. I guess you're saying that your friend felt no need to replace the rotor anytime soon, since it was still "safe" to him. Heck, removing the extra metal probably saved a few ounces. Maybe he can patent the design.
So yeah, I see how they are completely different examples. I guess you're saying that your friend felt no need to replace the rotor anytime soon, since it was still "safe" to him. Heck, removing the extra metal probably saved a few ounces. Maybe he can patent the design.
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I have had many MTB tires fail over the decades. Sometimes catastrophically. Even a double pinch flat at mach schnell one time. The tire failures did not cause me to crash. It is rare that a tire failure results in a crash. Your assumption is flawed.
You need to go back and read my post above explaining why this would not happen. The brake pad did engage the "structurally-compromised rotor," repeatedly, for over an hour. The brake continued to work, the brake pad did not catch, and the rider didn't crash.
Also, even assuming your fantasy is possible, let alone probable (again, it's not), I am amazed that you imagine that a locked rear tire = rider probably crashing. It seems that you have never ridden a mountain bike off-road.
A frame would be ruined because a rear wheel locked and a rider crashed? Seriously? Again, it seems that you have never ridden a mountain bike off-road.
Also, even assuming your fantasy is possible, let alone probable (again, it's not), I am amazed that you imagine that a locked rear tire = rider probably crashing. It seems that you have never ridden a mountain bike off-road.
A frame would be ruined because a rear wheel locked and a rider crashed? Seriously? Again, it seems that you have never ridden a mountain bike off-road.
#60
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Organic pads FTW. I like the modulation much better and they feel better in the grip with mechanical discs. With organics, the pads wear more, rotors less. True, organics aren’t the best for every application, but for my purposes they’re the pad of choice. Also, I’m not a big fan of stainless/aluminum sandwich rotors. I suppose a laminated rotor tests better under lab conditions but in the real world I doubt they provide any tangible benefit.
-Kedosto
-Kedosto
That said, what are most bikes (not pure race machines, but MTB, road, and gravel) currently being sold with as OEM - organic or other? Are any ceramic?
#61
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-Kedosto
#62
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Thanks. Good to know.
#63
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I'm not buying that this is due to typical rotor wear and tear. There had to be something else at play here; an impact.
#64
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#65
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I've had some misalignment that the whole rotor would deflect to one side when applied. I have no desire to analyze it at a metallurgical level in a repeatable manner to see if that really matters or not or how critical that is to rotor life and stress. I adjust to avoid rubbing and eyeball it but no doubt there is some angular error still there in some plane. I have seen some pad wear patterns that the top and bottom of the pad are uneven and the opposite pattern on the other side before and assume that is the cause and the pad eventually mitigates the difference. Pad wear differences from leading to trailing edge would be the same thing with a twist. As the rotor wears and gets thinner, those twisting or bending forces become a larger factor. Not implying that is the case here, just a general comment.
Last edited by u235; 01-19-19 at 08:57 AM.
#66
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It's refreshing that you remain so utterly confused (and fearful). Comparing a working rotor on a mountain bike to a working tire on a car is a false equivalence due to the differences in potential failure modes, potential consequences, speeds, weight, etc.
While I am not surprised that you can't understand the difference, it is sad that you remain mired in such a confused state.
I truly hope that you get better some time.
While I am not surprised that you can't understand the difference, it is sad that you remain mired in such a confused state.
I truly hope that you get better some time.
#68
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#69
Non omnino gravis
I've been following this one for awhile, and I really don't get the whole kerfuffle. Perhaps I missed it-- the owner of the bike in the OP-- at the conclusion of the ride, he removed the damaged rotor and replaced it, yes? If that is the case, what's the big deal? Parts fail all the time, particularly on MTBs. A failed brake rotor is hardly the end of the world-- especially as it was the rear rotor.
I've finished rides with screws stuck in the tire, broken spokes, and bent rims. All of which I would reckon potentially more dangerous than a damaged rotor, because the wheel could just fold up and put me on the ground.
I've finished rides with screws stuck in the tire, broken spokes, and bent rims. All of which I would reckon potentially more dangerous than a damaged rotor, because the wheel could just fold up and put me on the ground.
#70
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Crazy Idea Everyone..... Post about the topic, not other people....Let's give it a try.
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Last edited by Homebrew01; 01-19-19 at 10:21 PM.
#71
Senior Member
I guess the real question here is WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE? I already mentioned my 6 mile ride out of the wood with NO REAR ROTOR so I would have just kept riding. I would have taken it a bit easy but I really wouldn't have worried about it. I certainly wouldn't have walked my bike out of the woods. The way those ice tech rotors are made the strength of the rotor wasn't really compromised, it was just the braking surface that peeled off.
#72
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#73
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I guess the real question here is WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE? I already mentioned my 6 mile ride out of the wood with NO REAR ROTOR so I would have just kept riding. I would have taken it a bit easy but I really wouldn't have worried about it. I certainly wouldn't have walked my bike out of the woods. The way those ice tech rotors are made the strength of the rotor wasn't really compromised, it was just the braking surface that peeled off.
In fact, I did almost exactly the same thing when I hit a rock and partially broke the weld on my front rim. I was almost at the farthest point of an evening ride; so the alternatives were either walk 15 miles, make the 'call of shame' or gingerly finish the ride. I made it home and immediately retired the wheel. I was taking a small chance riding on it, but holding my speed down limited the potential for damage.