rhm

Those old Simplex derailleurs shift fine when correctly set up and, when correctly set up they just automatically shift into low gear if the cable breaks. The catastrophic flaw is that if you drop the bike on the right side, all its weight goes on the derailleur for a moment, and the derailleur cannot deflect. A normal high parallelogram, like a Gran Sport, just moved out of the way as if you were pulling its cable. The result is that rigid arm derailleurs like Sinplex, Huret, Cyclo, etc, often get bent, sending them into the spokes eventually. They are judged by how they die, which is rather unfair.

juvela

great post rhm!

thank you.

Salubrious

+1 Rudy.

Ed.

VR, I hesitate, but please realize my Mother has a Masters in Shakespeare... Please, please, please, paragraphs are wonderful things; they help immensely in improving readability. Honestly, I can't get through your detailed posts as they morph into a wall in front of my eyes.

Your bike is a beauty, and I would love to read the details.

VintageRide

Sorry about that Ed - I ramble on too much at times! I was reprimanded in the past about that so you would think I learned my lesson. With some very worthwhile suggestions put forth I will be definitely wrapping the handlebars in red cloth tape and am sourcing some appropriate silver colored cables, preferably vintage. Perhaps a pair of red toe clip straps as well. I have been following other builds mentioned here with much interest as I enjoy bikes more so from the mid '60's and earlier and it is nice to see some wonderful examples. I rode on tubular tires for years although none of my other bikes use them I felt I should have at least one so equipped.

VintageRide

Put a set of temporary wheels on - at least it helps give me some motivation!

repechage

Looks nice, red tape and silver housing will look good. Still I am skeptical about bonding a shift boss on there though.

VintageRide

Well, two months later and I have made some progress. For those following this I did get the hubs laced to the Mavic tubular rims, put some Tressostar red cloth tape on the handlebars and installed the brake cables. I had a Campagnolo axle lying around that seems to work with the bottom bracket issue involving the thicker non French Tange fixed cup that somewhat buggered up the shell on the drive side with and will be using it with a Nervar Star crank set for now until I find a period Stronglight 49D.

My understanding is that Nervar is ISO as is the Campagnolo axle so they should work together. I needed a shorter length that has a 50mm distance between the axle races so I hope it does the job. I may replace the MKS Sylvan pedals with some Lyotard 460D pedals and only need to get some shifter cable and housing, shifter, the shifter boss mount repaired and the front suicide Simplex shifter needs a clamping band so slowly but surely.

The frame is a 57 cm with a 55 cm top tube and I currently am using an 80mm Pivo stem but because of the slack angle of the seat tube, I am guessing probably at least 71 degrees while the head tube is 73 puts me further back than any of my more modern bikes which are all 73 parallel so I will most likely need a shorter stem to feel comfortable, I do notice I am more stretched out! How this bike will ride and feel is another story of course, I favor wider tires these days but since it will be for occasional leisure rides it will not be a real problem. Tires are typical 21mm tubulars. I think setting up the rear derailleur will be "fun", more so with the spring that tensions against the main body, seems to be a bit tricky so far.

juvela

Hello VintageRide,

thanks very much for this fine update.

appears you have not been unbusy.

question regarding the c/w bolts on the Peyrard chainset. noticed that the heads are protruding; did you employ these bolts to solve a problem or are they what was to hand? iirc Peyrard interchange with other quality allen bolt cotterless chainsets.

what model is that Tron et Berthet she is wearing? or did you "borrow" the eighty intended for the Sauvage?

VintageRide

Hi juvela, that Nervar crank set came from a late 30's or so Hetchins that the person I bought the Urago from did not need, as it was obviously incorrect! The bolts look fine to me but since you mentioned it they should be flush so I really cannot say either way what someone else did, and yes, I took the seat from the Lejeune although I imagine at some point I will have to scrounge up another Ideale although neither bike will ever be ridden that much so I sometimes wonder why keep both but there is just something about the older French bikes I like, even if they are not high end models.

dddd

Lugwork looks similar to this very French, 1952 E. Christophe that I found locally:

juvela

thanks for the response VintageRide.

dddd - thank you for posting your Christophe. had been wondering about it since it is listed by your avatar. also owned one which i dated at ~1954. it was quite different from yours as it was an obvious Automoto manufacture. had the tubular crown with the cloverleaf emblem. mechs were Freres Huret. a base model looking example roughly parallel to a UO8 for its day. happily, found it all original and undamaged. came from a community college flea market back in the mid-eighties. no pictures.

dddd

Interesting that your E. Christophe was "of obvious Automoto manufacture", as here is a 1952 Automoto that does not have the trademark Automoto fork crown, yet is identical to my E. Christophe!

Likely E. Christophe sourced their bikes from the same high-end builder that Automoto sourced their highest-end bikes from, as perhaps Automoto's factory never touched this bike:




See this link for detail photos. They match my bike to a "T", save for the headtube badge and branding:

Rydjor Bike Shop: Bike Collection

And if Automoto didn't build these, then who did, Oscar Egg?

juvela

hello dddd,

thanks very much for your response.

this new example is fascinating.

one thing i forgot to mention about the one i had is that (iirc!) it was badged simply as "Christophe", as opposed to "E. Christophe." assumed this was named for the same person whose name appears on the toeclips with which we are all so familiar. perhaps some of the racing history experts can say something regarding this name.

the St. Etienne on your machine's headplate made me think of Manufrance, but of course this city was an important centre of French cycle manufacture with many makers.

thank you again.

gbi

Even if the bulbous pivo stem is not period correct, I like the way it looks on your Urago.

It seems to echo the portrait on the head badge.

VintageRide

gbi = I took a fancy to it myself and have not found another Pivo stem quite like it yet. I received it from the person I bought The Urago from who mentioned it was from that period more or less. I am quite sure the original stem bolt was replaced by a more modern allen head type.. I would like to find out for sure about it though.

John E

I realize it is 20 years too new, but that Nervar Star, one of my all-time favorites, looks great on that frame. (I think any crankset would look great on that frame. )

juvela

the person who fitted the allen expander bolt may have counterbored the stem in order to accommodate it. in which case going back to the original hex head bolt made by algi might be a problem.

gbi

Hello VintageRide,

To the best of my knowledge the bulbous pivo stem was made for a short time in the early/mid 70's.

I have yet to hear of any from any other time period.

The allen head bolt is most likely original, although it should probably seat further down in the stem, flush on the top with the stem.

VintageRide

Thank you for that information on the stem, I will most likely have to go to a 60mm since I just am not flexible enough at my age so will be looking out for something from the '50's. One more item to find!

VintageRide

Another update to this slow build - ordered some wider Challenge Strada 25mm tubulars, a band clamp period Simplex shift lever is on it's way from France and I have some modern reproduction bar end plugs coming from the U.K. with the old Simplex logo on them for an added touch. I also traded a Stronglight A9 headset to another member ( nlerner ) for a pair of Lyotard 460d pedals and a 55mm stem, which I promptly worked on to remove insertion marks and bring to a nice polish. I should have some Stronglight 49D cranks from jeirvine by early next month.

All that is left is the front Simplex rod shifter which is at the home of the person I purchased the frame from. He is either going to make a clamping band for it or give me another complete one , depending on how things go. The biggest expenditure will be for a reproduction wire handle bar twin water bottle cage and the two aluminum bottles, somewhere around 150.00 total. It seems the Urago will not be complete without it!

If anyone knows where I might find an affordable period frame pump ( about 46 cm compressed ) it would be the final touch. If everything comes together smoothly it should be on the road in a another month or so. I did notice that a previous owner unfortunately messed up the head badge as it was repainted by hand - I have stripped off most of it and will eventually attempt to do a better job. Most Uragos appear to have aluminum badges and this one is brass - the letters are embossed so that when painted white there is a thin raised border which would appear to be left in bare metal. Should be a lot of fun trying to do a good job of it. I really enjoy the other bikes posted here and reading about them , as well as other builds from the 30's - 50's, it is a period I find particularly fascinating.

juvela

wow, thanks very much for this update!

she is looking most fine.

is this new stem an atax or is it unmarked? the binder is an algi.

looking forward to seeing her with the new juy front mech...

expect period correct inflator would be an ad hoc; alternatively one could go with a gonfleur.

fine work you are doing.

Big Block

Cable outers were available in colours in 1949. The 1949 Aids to Happy Cycling has on p3:
"Brake Cable Outer Casing. Silver, red, blue or green"

Any markings on the Simplex RD for its chain width and freewheel range?
I found these comments useful when setting up my Simplex RD.

raymond1354

repechage

I have tried this sort of thing and it failed meserably in a short time.

r

VintageRide

Big Block - The rear derailleur is a five speed model, using an Atom 14-24T freewheel ( as 24T was the maximum ) and apparently one of the tricks to using these early derailleurs is having the proper chain length ( trial and error without the original chain ) and the right gearing. I have a 42T inner on the current Nervar crank and the Stronglight will have a 40T which would be more useful. I might go with TA chain rings eventually and try something like a 34T or 36T inner and a 46T outer, it becomes obvious when setting up the derailleur just how little chain wrap it has.

It will be fine for the kind of limited riding I plan on doing with the bike and I do not mind all of the trouble I went through learning how to properly set it up. Many have turned the pulley cage around in order to achieve more chain wrap but of course it does not usually shift as well. And thank you for your encouragement juvela, always nice to know others appreciate these bikes.The stem is marked OFV ( or DFV ) just behind the handlebar. Have yet to find any information on it.