Kindaslow

What one person believes is expensive can be so different from what the next person believes is expensive that the discussion can be difficult on just that point. I am still curious what people think is normal, expensive or ridiculous. Then, to the OP, do us old guys find the value in buying expensive (whatever that is to "you") if that means you really love it that much more? Enough that it might stay, where 2-3 less expensive bikes might have been cycled through in that same time period.

For me, I see $5,000-10,000 as expensive and above $10,000 as ridiculous (but, I do not care if someone else spends that much).

wphamilton

If I were completely logical, I'd spend the most that I could afford on the best mattress and bed that I could buy, because I spend more of my life sleeping there than in other activities. Then I'd likely splurge on my desk chairs. Logically I also spend a lot of time and energy on my bike, and therefore I should devote more resources to a higher quality of bike. But I don't do any of these things, so there must be some non-logical reason for it. I'm not really worried about the why of it, but wanted to point out that a purely logical analysis isn't enough to explain these purchasing decisions regardless of where on the price point they reside.

jbenkert111

Just a thought, and I don't have a clue what it means, so don't ask. A Car forum that I am on has this same conversation all the time! Bottom line is I guess is you ride (drive) what you want and I'll ride what I want as long as I can afford it and think it is worth the money!

70sSanO

While I agree that performance is the motivator for most, it is a double edged sword. It is anticipated that you are supposed to be faster than the next guy without those performance enhancements so when you are, no big deal and when you are not you wasted your money. Right or wrong.

I honestly don't care what someone rides, more power to them. But I would be lying if I said I never felt some bravado when I go by someone on an expensive bike with my non-aero-brake-downtube-shifting-toe-clip-straps bike. Now it really doesn't matter if that person is recovering from a triple by-pass. And if he smokes me... Oh well.

People are an odd lot.

John

irwin7638

Leave common sense out of this! It frightens people these days.

Marc

irwin7638

Two days, workin' on 8 pages. Not bad. If somebody tries to drag Grant Peterson into this.....

Marc

Biker395 

Good point. But my conjecture is that whether they realize they are doing it or not, people choose make their decisions trying to maximize what they obtain. The difference is that they use different optimization parameters when making their decisions.

My wife recently bought a 2 seater sports car. Hard to see out of, hard to get in and out of, and can carry damn near nothing. And who needs 300+ HP to sit in bumper to bumper traffic? One might call that completely illogical.

But those weren't her parameters. Hers were: looks good, goes fast, isn't too expensive, and most importantly ... is red. With those parameters, her decision is entirely logical.

Someone buying an uber bike may be buying it just because they love the look of it. In that case, the decision is still logical ... its just one that weights subjective appearance heavily. Another may buy it because their friends will be impressed (I truly think there are damn few of these). The decision is still logical. Others may buy it because they really want the performance benefit, no matter how insignificant compared to their own limitations.

I guess the point is that you can argue that all of the decisions are subject to logical analysis ... it just depends what parameters you're optimizing. Or in street parlance ... whatever floats your boat.

BTW, she loves the car. In my book, that is all that counts. I'm still driving my 13 year old Subie. But I'm a contrarian luddite.

Kindaslow

Only because it is so uncommon with regards to wants versus needs that it is like seeing a rainbow colored unicorn, given single colored unicorns are more common as common sense...

but, let's not let that impact our fun...

Wildwood 

Top story (well, it's an excerpt from a book - slow bicycle news day) on Velonews.com today.

Bike Weight and the Myth of Fast Bikes
Bike weight and the myth of 'fast' bikes - VeloNews.com

I thought it pertinent as the most expensive bikes are usually some of the lightest (but not always).

Kindaslow

The new Sworks Venge weighs more than my Venge, but it is a faster bike than mine for those with the engine to push it (not me).

Kindaslow

The bikes above $10,000 do not make sense to me. However, that logic is no more logical than someone else drawing their line at some other point. So, I was searching article on the topic. These two article were interesting to me.


Rise of the Five-Figure Bicycle - WSJ


$10,000 bikes ? What's the point? - BikeRadar


Now, it is time to go for a walk!

rydabent

So can the owner of a $12,000 bike look down upon the owner of a $9000 bike and call it trash**********

Kindaslow

Are you asking us for permission???






Just kidding. Hopefully we save the trash talking for our best friends, those who deserve it!

wphamilton

You're probably right. We're trying to maximize something when we buy, unless the money is just too insignificant to care about. But that something, and what drives us to value it, isn't necessarily rational. It could be based on sentiment, or fears, or some other emotion. Or something in the context of the social drives. Regardless, even when I think that I've a strictly logical basis for something I buy, a deeper analysis often brings up flaws in the reasoning and I realize that it wasn't the underlying reason after all. Just the justification for it. This is easier to spot in others than in ourselves.

That, in addition to being a skinflint, is why I usually wait a week to indefinite to actually make the purchase of something that I have decided to buy. If the context changes and my reasoning still seems sound, it is less likely to have a transient emotion underlying my wanting whatever it is.

vangoes

I haven't read all the comments to this point, but the OP's question reminds me of a recent situation that happened to me and my thoughts on it.

I was at my brother's house for a party and I showed him a picture of a 70's bike I had refurbished. Then he mentioned his bike and asked if I'd like to see it. I said sure and he took me to his garage and showed me his all carbon Trek Madone. Now most of you know that name and model and are aware that it is a very expensive bike, I'm not sure what he paid for it, but they can cost over $10,000 (my brother is a doctor and can well afford whatever kind of bike he wants). Well, at the time, I did not recognize the name and had no idea of its cost. It was very nice, light weight and had very attractive lines to it. I commented that the lines were extremely similar to my $700.00 aluminum Ridely Fenix (and they are), and I said so. He was very gracious and did not mention that his bike could have cost 10x what I paid for mine. I looked up his bike later and discovered that fact. Then I got to wondering, other than a few thousand in higher end components and the added cost of carbon components, what could possibly be different enough to warrant a $10,000 or more price tag? I'm proud that my brother has prospered enough and has the wherewithal to afford such a bike, but how could it be 10x better than my Ridley, which I consider to be a truly fine road bike? As I said, he was gracious about my comment, if I had known the possible cost difference at the time, I never would have pointed out the similarities in shape to my much cheaper bike, but yet, I can see them. I think he did what the man in the article did and bought his dream bike knowing he would not have to blame the bike as a cause for any difficulties encountered in his riding and that an upgrade will not be necessary for a very long time. Whereas me, with my Ridley, well they make them in Carbon too!

badger1

It's a beautiful late December day here in Southwestern Ontario: dry roads; 8 degrees C; no snow. Unbelievably nice conditions for around here at this time of year.

I'm going to go for a ride on my mid-priced, reasonably light bike that I have set-up just the way I want. I shall neither be embarrassed if I encounter someone on a much more expensive bicycle, nor shall I envy such a person.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Gerryattrick

Last year, for his 60th birthday, the wife of a friend of mine bought him a £2000+ bottle of wine. To me that is extremely extravagant (equivalent to 1000 pints of my favourite beer), but he absolutely loved it and to him it was not extravagant at all.

There are no absolutes in defining extravagant, or whether something is "worth it", it depends on the individual's perspective.

Bikes, wine, chocolates, yachts all have the potential to be considered extravagant or good value, but who £is to judge?

Kindaslow

I now have my gear on to walk a couple of hours through the cold and snow up here in Whistler. I am hoping that this discussion that has been interesting does not devolve into an us versus them, but stays on track about how we value things, and how that might change with age. Any bike that gets ridden is a good bike. We happen to be bike lovers, so we might have some extreme thoughts regarding what is or is not worth "it."

chasm54

Funnily enough, I did go to some lengths to find a mattress that is close to ideal. It was pricey, but not ruinous. And the same goes for bikes. The top priority for a bike (for performance, as well as pleasure) is that it should fit you perfectly. That doesn't necessarily mean $$$.

fietsbob

being 5 decades past having my 1st bike . and appreciating the fine German industrial arts , a 2nd hand Rohloff Bike made sense.
so in 2008 I bought this .. WB Bicycle Gallery: Robert Clark's Koga Miyata WTR

wphamilton

I can only say that this is a logical course of action. I don't really know why my mattress isn't a high end one, but my next one probably will be.

I devote some effort to correct fit, although comfort to me is mostly a matter of geometry. I don't know that spending more would improve that. Probably would, but I suspect not by a lot.

vangoes

I recently bought the most expensive set of pillows I ever bought (on sale for $40.00 apiece) to help with numbness in my arm and hand and I'll tell you, they are worth every penny (this is related in that the numbness was affecting my riding too). The numbness is gone now. Also, the vintage bike I had fixed up, an old steel frame bike I had fixed up because of the smooth ride I remembered it having when I rode it years ago, has helped my arthritis in my thumbs, so for just about $300 I have my old bike to ride when I want a nice smooth outing.

Maelochs

You would possibly, if you thought that that investment would pay off with vastly improved sleep. However, you already sleep well enough, and likely any reason you might not sleep well has nothing to do with your bed. Investment there would make no sense from any point (Besides, you literally are not conscious of your bed for most of the time you use it.)

Or maybe there is a totally logical reason for it. You don't believe that a $10K bike will make you enjoy riding more, any more than you think a $10K bed will help you sleep better.

The idea that there is only one logical way to analyze a situation and only one logical solution is wrong. Also, logic is not the temple of reason some make it out to be. If I want a $10K bike because I think it looks cool, is that logical? In a way, yes; in another way, it is purely emotional. I can logically process my emotional reaction to the bike, and use my reasoning power to determine if I can afford it, how I can afford it, and whether i want to afford it ... but is it a reasonable line of thought to begin with?

I suggest several people give me $10K. I will buy a variety of bikes and submit myself to your analysis to determine why I made the choices I made. Data is king, no? In the interest of science, PM your bank routing numbers. I will take care of the rest.

wphamilton

Except that I know that the $10K bed would give me a better night's sleep, and I know that a $10K bike will ride better. I'm not trying to be contentious, but do you really think that I'd overlook that possibility?

If you don't accept that you sometimes do things for reasons other than you believe then I'm not sure that the data, being based in part on subjective evaluations, would be very useful for this particular question.

Reasoning which leads to a contradiction is always wrong. The reasons people, including myself, give for a particular purchase often lead to contradictions. While there may be more than one logical way to analyze it, this way is sufficient to prove in those situations that it wasn't logical.

You can apply reason (including, but not limited to, logic) to emotions or anything else. That's not the same thing has having logical or rational reasons. Applying that standard would be silly, if you think about it. It would mean, for example, that the dumbest self-destructive behavior is logical simply because you can logically analyze the destructive impulse.

osco53

It's funny how you came to this and it was as far from what I meant as It could possibly be..


I guess I should keep It simple,,, "It ain't the bike, It's the engine"

If a first time rookie rider starts out on a great bike more power to him,,must be nice to have that kinda money, I have no problem with that at all, no jealousy, nothing.
I rented a 5K bike once, It was 25 pounds,,mine Is 30,,I could barely notice a difference in over all bike performance in the woods,,,
I'll stick with 2 k bikes, they serve me just fine...

Again Hi End bikes make mid range and lower end bikes better by leaps and bounds,,It's called trickle down.....