unionmade

Sounds like sound advice. Still not sure...

rpenmanparker 

Okay, that's all good. I'm just trying to be fair to Ribble here. If someone else was willing to send something back, there is no reason to assume it wouldn't be remedied under warranty.

rpenmanparker 

Why wouldn't they honor the Campy warranty. They were authorized to sell the UK goods to anyone who wanted to buy them. The warranty should be fully valid. Gray market isn't about where the buyer is located. It is about where the seller is located.

Supposing you were in the UK and bought the stuff. Took it back to the USA. It broke. Wouldn't the warranty be expected to be valid? Shipping it to you is hardly different.

Brian Ratliff

A distribution contract can be written any way the two entities feel is fair to both parties. The whole reason why UK prices are much better than US is because distribution between the UK and the US is not supposed to happen, by contract. Because of favorable laws in the UK, internet shops based in the UK are allowed to ship to the US. There is an import duty on the US side if the shipment is found in customs. This doesn't happen often though, and the package is labeled and shipped in such a way as to not arouse suspicions (most of the time packages are labeled as "gifts" for instance).

But it is entirely possible that Campy can refuse to honor the warranty of a product that is shipped outside its approved distribution channels. There is no "rule" that they "have to" do anything. A warranty is a contract between buyer and seller and it can literally say anything that the two parties agree to (outside of some broad legal limitations).

WhyFi

It's very different, Robert.

Brian Ratliff

I think the distinction is it will be remedied under Ribble, not under warranty. If it is indeed gray market, Ribble will simply take the hit out of their own pocket and not deal with the manufacture at all.

rpenmanparker 

Let's find out, shall we? I emailed Ribble with the question. As I see it, how is Campy to know? The seller is also their warranty service agent. Anyway it is a good question. Let's see what they say.

rpenmanparker 

That is how true gray market goods (sold by a seller who is themselves outside of the approved distribution area) are often handled. This appears to me to be different. We shall see what they say.

rpenmanparker 

How would they even know? Do you have to fill out a form to register group parts with your name and address and such? I imagine Ribble just tells the Campy rep they have these four or whatever broken parts to be credited to their account and hands them to the rep when he visits the store. He throws them in the back of his car and dumps them at the warehouse next time goes back to the office. I can't imagine Campy asking for the details about each buyer. But it is possible. Let's see.

Brian Ratliff

Usually warranty work requires proof of purchase. I don't know about Campy, but Trek certainly requires detailed info about each warranty replacement. When I got my frame replaced, they required proof of purchase and a detailed description of the failure of the frame, as well as the frame itself so they could make the judgement of whether to repair or replace the frame. This is their business; they aren't in the business of giving stuff away for free. You are confusing the behavior of low margin retailers such as Target with high margin retailers, such as specialty bike shops.

There are, of course, ways of spoofing your address and proof of purchase to make it look like you are a UK buyer to Campy, but this is probably some version of fraud and breach of contract and is probably specifically mentioned in the distribution agreement.

WhyFi

Because goods can sit in a warehouse or on a shelf for long time, manufacturers often want to see invoices with appropriate serial numbers and transaction details (date and customer info) on them. You're being naive if you think that warranty replacement and repair isn't a cost that the manufacturers keep close track of.

Mr IGH

If you want Campy, buy it now so you can buy electronic Shimano for your 50th...there's a reason it's hard to find in the US, it sucks.

rpenmanparker 

I just found this on the Velotech website. Velotech is one of four warranty service companies for Campy in the UK. Here is the link to the page I excerpted: Frequently Asked Questions - Campagnolo - Velotech Cycling Ltd - Weldtech Industry standard cycle mechanics training and Campagnolo Approved Service Centre (UK)

Q: What is the proper Campagnolo Warranty Procedure for parts bought abroad?

Brian Ratliff

Your conclusions are not warranted by that particular Q&A. Thing is, this statement might or might not apply to parts coming from UK to the US. Distribution contracts are contracts that can say anything the parties agree for them to say. The US might well be a separate distribution system from the rest of the world. "Abroad" does not automatically include "United States". Notice that, even though the US is a much bigger market than Australia, they did not use the US as their example. This might well be deliberate.

rpenmanparker 

Okee, dokee.

Brian Ratliff

Better to just ask the particular shop you are buying from than to spend effort speculating, yes?

That is my point when I say a contract can say anything the parties want it to say. There are no hard and fast rules about this in any sense. It can literally be pick-and-choose-illogical-nonsense if that is what the text of the contract says. If you want to buy a bike from Ribble and are worried about how they handle warranty situations, just ask them and only them. Don't make assumptions about the deal Campy Italy has with the distributor, or about how Campy USA will handle warranty cases from parts bought in the UK, or anything else. When you buy something, it is a deal between you and the retailer, so ask the retailer if there are questions about how they handle returns and defects.

rpenmanparker 

That makes perfect sense, and is exactly what I would do. My only objection is the a priori assumption that the UK guys aren't supplying and able to support manufacturers warranties on goods shipped to the US. Folks are continually being advised here that there is no warranty on these goods, when we don't really know that is true. You are exactly correct that one would have to verify the existence of the manufacturer's warranty and its applicability, but I don't get the pessimism going in.

WhyFi

Bobby, you're being a source of facepalms, again. That a Campy part has to go back to the region it was bought from isn't evidence that there's no such thing as Campy gray market, it reinforces that it's gray market.

Brian Ratliff

If you look around the internet, there are a lot of people who get burned on this issue when the UK store doesn't respond well to the warranty request, or maybe doesn't respond at all. People then go to the manufacturer, be it Campagnolo Italy or Campagnolo USA, and find that the reseller wasn't operating within Campy Italy's purview and Campy USA has no stake in the matter. IMO, it is better to go into the purchase believing you have little recourse and calling after something happens (as I did with my PBK purchase) and finding that the reseller will make the problem go away, than to believing you are covered by someone and finding out you fell into a crack somewhere and nobody will own up.

It's another way of saying "caveat emptor".

rpenmanparker 

Nah, I don't think so. If Campy accepts the claim regardless of your address as long as you work through the shop where the parts were bought, then the purchase couldn't have been unauthorized. All good as long as you deal with where you got it. Pretty enlightened policy. Not perfect, but sensible.

WhyFi

Bobby - if it weren't gray market, it would go to the nearest center (or center of the customer's choice), not the region that it was sold out of. That it's not to be serviced in the customer's market tells you that it got there through channels not intended to service the customer's market (which = gray market). And as Brian has already stated, that one service provider states a policy does not mean that that policy is universal.

rpenmanparker 

I don't agree, but you guys are relentless. That's fine.

WhyFi

They absolutely could and I'm sure that some do... but many, in support of their local distribution, provide more direct service, convenient service. It depends (haven't you been paying attention?) and it goes both ways. If you were a retailer, would you rather carry a product from a manufacturer that's going to provide preferential support to you and your customers or a manufacturer that's going to treat your customers and the guy that buys from mail-order schmoes the same?

rpenmanparker 

Understand I'm not talking about right and wrong, good and bad marketing. I'm just talking about what is the actual situation with these UK retailers. That is something we could benefit by knowing. People like these guys for buying stuff from them. Let's find out what the warranty situation is with them. I volunteer.

WhyFi

If you have that kind of time and ambition, knock yourself out, but I don't see what the point is - anybody seeking warranty replacement is going to have to call for an RMA and whatnot on a case-by-case basis, anyway. Even if you're talking about finding out for the sake of future purchasing decisions, again, the answer today from vendor X about product Y from manufacturer Z isn't necessarily going to mean something relevant in the future. If warranty is something that's important to an individual, it's something that should be looked in to at the time of purchase, not abstractly.