woodcraft

You may also look where you're going more than some.

Marcus_Ti

Those lower pressures also mean instead of pinch flatting a tube you'll trash a rim. Personally, I'll eat a $5 tube for being an idiot any day of the week. A $100+USD rim is a bit different.

chaadster

Yeah, I've not had a snakebite since...I can't remember when. If it's true that people complain more about them nowadays, perhaps it's because of the poor state of repair of many of America's roadways. There's no doubt that the rate and frequency of decay is greater today than it was even 20 years ago; the roads are older, and infrastructure investment has been economized for short term benefit.

Whatever the reason, there is definitely a trend towards running lower pressure, so maybe that's behind any pinch flat spike which may be happening.

RJM

No, that isn't what it means. A tube isn't going to save your rim, but it will force you to ride quite higher pressures.


I haven't had one issue with rims and I haven't heard of this happening much. I have in mountain biking, but we run 24-28lbs of air and bash on stuff.

RJM

I don't own a bead jack...what is a bead jack? I just have those plastic tire levers that every bike store I've ever been in has for sale.

Marcus_Ti

Hit an unmarked speedbump in the dark on unfamiliar roads at even medium speed. I've had it happen and known people who've also had it happen. With clinchers, you'll be getting pinch flats (and a memo that "hey idiot your pressure are too low) before you damage a rim more than likely.

chaadster

The thing is, your experience is not indicative of all tubeless setups. I can peel 23c Pro One's off AC Argents with delightful ease, by hand. It's so easy. Two weeks ago, I spent the longest period of time I can ever recall fixing a flat while helping a tubed clubmate who'd flatted. Some kind of Conti clincher, GP4K I think, on a standard looking, shallow depth alu clincher. It was brutal getting the tire on and off.

So why you think your experience speaks to all tubeless setups is beyond me and incredibly foolish. You chose to throw in the towel rather than educate yourself on how the system works and how to handle it, and now you want to spread ignorance by counseling others that tubeless is a folly? It's really pathetic, IMO.

RJM

I just don't see how the minimal rubber in a tube would save your rim in that scenario.

chaadster

Exactly.

Some people run tubeless, some tubed, some both (like me) and some don't know what they're talking about.

Marcus_Ti

Had an amigo with Fulcrum clinchers that were tubeless ready. They were as tough a bastard to mount tubeless on as my Belgiums.

I throw in the towel being educated and making the decision that it simply is not worth it for road usage. Tubed tires are wicked good and good std clinchers are every bit as good in ride quality as tubeless. But with tubeless you get perks of overnight air-loss and sealant hassle (sealant doesn't like CO2 inflators you have to finesse the gun into tiny spurts that may not be enough to reestablish a broken seal , an oft forgotten tidbit of knowledge)...all for a tire that rides maybe 1-5% better than good std clinchers. And you still have to lug around the same toolkit.

Really pathetic indeed.

The OP asked for real world experience and not advert cover boilerplate from Stan's.

chaadster

It wouldn't.

chaadster

Overnight air loss? You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

It's true that sealant will polymerize if flash frozen, but just rotate the valve opposite the pooled sealant when using CO2. Or better yet, get the proper tools for the job, and use compressed air. If you're talking about on the road-- though I don't know why you'd bother trying to patch rather than just boot and tube-- then get a regulated CO2 inflator, again, the right tool for the job.

Don't fault tubeless systems because you don't know WTF you are doing.

Oh, and extra demerits for the psuedo-scientific "rides maybe 1-5% better" comment.

Marcus_Ti

Sorry,

I was under the mis-understanding that sealant was supposed to be able to seal small punctures. You know that you could take a (small) puncture rotate it to the bottom of the wheel, let it sit a bit, and retop your tire (spin it) and maybe get going again. Clearly your expertise is required at Stan's, since they clearly don't know WTF they're talking about either.

Sorry for any and all confusion on my part, I bow to your superior wisdom and experience.

chaadster

Stop derailing the thread with silliness. The OP asked for opinions from "tubeless gurus," which you clearly are not.

Marcus_Ti

He didn't ask for shills either. But yea, I've said my bit.

chaadster

Shill? Do you even know what that means, and if so, you not only have no basis to level that charge at me, you're also completely wrong...which is not surprising.

My opinions are my own, and based on my own experience and effort setting up tubeless wheels. I also read and investigate the topic, so I incorporate others' experience into my opinions as well, which is why, unlike you, I'm under no illusions that my greatly positive experience with tubeless is universal, and why I don't go around counseling everyone to avoid tubed tires.

redfooj

Errr, I installed my tubeless tires by hand. They are not ANY different than installing standard clinchers.

I actually put a tube underneath it on the very initial installation, out of the box, to get it in shape for the bead fitting. It takes all of 3 entire minutes.

My sealant hasn't degraded or failed due to flash of co2

I didn't have to carefully measure the co2. 1 full blast to seat, and then finish with a pump

The tires haven't flatted overnight. In fact they don't leak any more or less than my butyl tubed wheel sets

I haven't experienced a burp or otherwise a flat on the road. Although I rode a CX with a guy who did... A single blast of my 12oz co2 got his tires back in shape and good for the ride...and the sealant didnt explode in his face either.

I earn a very good living from a non-bike profession that I really enjoy. But if Schwalbe or Stan's or whoever else wants to pay me on the side....I wouldn't turn down their money. So if they're listening out there, please send me a PM for the bank wire details.

StanSeven

You're right on that. I used to get lots of flats and a mechanic told me to always wear glasses and watch for glass and debris. I started doing that and it became a natural habit.

StanSeven

Unless there's been a change in the past few months, only one of the large four performance manufacturers produce tubeless and that's Specialized.

BigPoser

Haha, you guys are awesome and funny. Thank you all for the posts. Where I live and ride it is hot and dry and we have a ton of goat heads. I ride tubeless on my mountain bike and have never had a flat and have read that the road tubeless market is getting better. Which makes me believe that tubeless might be the answer. That or put sealant in my current tubes.

I'm currently running 25mm GP 4000S II on H-Plus Son Archtypes. I don't ride a ton around 100 miles a week or so. I do enjoy long rides on the weekend and I race as well so if I go tubeless I need something as durable as the Contis (minus the goat head strikes). Up until this week I hadn't had any flats in about 1000 miles so maybe it's just bad luck.

I'll be on the web researching tubeless tires for my new incoming wheels.

Thanks again.

dvdslw

Tubeless sounds like the right thing for you where you live, don't let the haters scare you away. Just go all in and get decent tires, stems, tape (if needed), use the proper amount of sealant, practice mounting the tires a few times before you ride and all will be fine. I really liked my Fusion 3's for the two years I rode them and they just released the Fusion 5's that should be an improvement over the 3's? They are an extremely durable tire with above average tread life.

https://www.artscyclery.com/Hutchinso...e-HTFU5TL.html

chaadster

I think that's different from what I'm talking about, but with only Continental and Michelin standing out as major brands not in the game, while everyone from CST/Maxxis, Schwalbe, Panaracer, Hutchinson, Specialized, IRC, Bontrager, Vittoria, right down to Vee, are in the mix, it would certainly seem that "concept viability" is not the issue keeping the Big Two out.
O
There are other brands, like Vredestein (out) and Clement (in), and Mavic (out) and Compass (in), and probably others (thinking of traditional tubular mfgs here, like Tufo and Gommitalia), but the balance seems to be in favor of tubeless by the numbers.

Could Michelin or Continental scuttle the system? I don't think so, and having read that Conti's NoAm director say that they don't think the tech is "fully baked," I'm inclined to think they're working on and waiting for a system standard before they reapportion their considerable manufacturing might.

rpenmanparker 

Google Kool Stop bead jack and VAR tire tool. Those are bead jacks.

StanSeven

Chaadster,

Thanks for explaining all that. Vittoria was the other one out from my old info.

chaadster

Yeah, it was only this year, but they jumped in big time, laying down the fastest tubeless tire to date, the Corsa Speed Open TLR. Super low Crr on that thing, and lightweight, featuring their graphene tech.