1 piece crank woes
02-20-09, 11:57 AM
#26
Sausage King
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I repair industrial equipment. I have used JB weld for some repairs and I have welded things like shafts similar to what needs to be done to your crank pin. JB Weld = fail for this app. How I would do it - and have done similar in the past is weld a couple spots on the crank pin. Apply welds where where the chainring makes contact. At this point your pin will be too large to fit the hole in the chainring. I would then grind and or file the built up crank pin down to the exact size it needs to be to fit the hole.
There is the possibility that your hole is enlarged because it is getting stressed on both ends during pedaling and braking. Something it wasn't designed to do. A new chain ring might fit better.
Probably about the same cost either way.
There is the possibility that your hole is enlarged because it is getting stressed on both ends during pedaling and braking. Something it wasn't designed to do. A new chain ring might fit better.
Probably about the same cost either way.
02-20-09, 01:11 PM
#27
helmet brake
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Hey all!
I went to the "Muffler Master" just now and had it welded.
It took about 3 minutes including setting up and putting away his gear, and he asked $5 for the job. (I gave $20 because I was so happy, and he was so kind
)
Would have been smart for me to to a little "overhaul" on the crank before I had the fella do it (as suggested in a previous post) but otherwise it is GREAT.
1. The Bike feels really tight.
2. Saved $100
3. Nobody will want to steal it
4. I resisted a little materialism!
If I break it / my teeth, I will take photos and report back!
He he!!!
-JAke
I went to the "Muffler Master" just now and had it welded.
It took about 3 minutes including setting up and putting away his gear, and he asked $5 for the job. (I gave $20 because I was so happy, and he was so kind
)Would have been smart for me to to a little "overhaul" on the crank before I had the fella do it (as suggested in a previous post) but otherwise it is GREAT.
1. The Bike feels really tight.
2. Saved $100
3. Nobody will want to steal it
4. I resisted a little materialism!
If I break it / my teeth, I will take photos and report back!
He he!!!
-JAke
02-20-09, 02:06 PM
#28
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I have the same issue on my winter bike. It is a Schwinn Continental fixed gear with the same style of crank and chainring. I was going to buy an adapter and change the crank for next winter, but I think I'll probably just have it welded like this. Have you tried putting a lot of backward resistance on it since you've had it welded?
02-20-09, 02:42 PM
#30
helmet brake
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I just took it out to do some errands and did my best to break the weld by skidding... 'no go chief'
Its on there solid, and the bike feels great now!
The immediate future hols alot more skidding and slowing down, so I'll post here if something happens for sure!!!
I was gonna buy and BB adapter and a new set of cranks too... I'll save that $100 for a fancier bike or some better wheels.
Jet- Yeah im running / rocking a brake. I dont envision getting rid of it, no matter how cool the bike will look... Its just too crazy here in the city, and I dont have the cat like reflexes, youthful strength or acceptance of death that a messenger type has...
Last edited by jakerock; 02-20-09 at 02:56 PM.
03-04-09, 12:29 AM
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Yeah... Im a noob to fixed gear so I have been spending most of my time trying to slow down and skid...
I just took it out to do some errands and did my best to break the weld by skidding... 'no go chief'
Its on there solid, and the bike feels great now!
The immediate future hols alot more skidding and slowing down, so I'll post here if something happens for sure!!!
I was gonna buy and BB adapter and a new set of cranks too... I'll save that $100 for a fancier bike or some better wheels.
Jet- Yeah im running / rocking a brake. I dont envision getting rid of it, no matter how cool the bike will look... Its just too crazy here in the city, and I dont have the cat like reflexes, youthful strength or acceptance of death that a messenger type has...
I just took it out to do some errands and did my best to break the weld by skidding... 'no go chief'
Its on there solid, and the bike feels great now!
The immediate future hols alot more skidding and slowing down, so I'll post here if something happens for sure!!!
I was gonna buy and BB adapter and a new set of cranks too... I'll save that $100 for a fancier bike or some better wheels.
Jet- Yeah im running / rocking a brake. I dont envision getting rid of it, no matter how cool the bike will look... Its just too crazy here in the city, and I dont have the cat like reflexes, youthful strength or acceptance of death that a messenger type has...
Don't worry about the crank. One piece crancks are heavier and have thicker axles and chainrings usually, they are some strong Mofos. I would trust them above even 3 piece cranks with square tapered axles. pain in the ass to install loose bearings though. Other than the bearing thing I think they are superior, especially in durability and I love the ease of maintenace.
Hows the bike after almost 2 weeks???
03-04-09, 04:34 PM
#33
helmet brake
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Still holding strong!
My only complaint it that the chainring is pretty out of round (was before the weld).
And this makes tensioning the chain properly an impossible feat. Too tight on one part of the pedal stroke, and too loose on the other.
Martinus...
Its an SE Draft... replaced wheels / tires / pedals / chain / stem / bars / etc...
Basically looking to get a new frame / BB & cranks over the summer and its a whole other bike.
Gotta say that the frame is not bad... everything else was cheap as sh*t. I bought it used last year for $150 and have put $450 into it! He he...
Steel is real.
My only complaint it that the chainring is pretty out of round (was before the weld).
And this makes tensioning the chain properly an impossible feat. Too tight on one part of the pedal stroke, and too loose on the other.
Martinus...
Its an SE Draft... replaced wheels / tires / pedals / chain / stem / bars / etc...
Basically looking to get a new frame / BB & cranks over the summer and its a whole other bike.
Gotta say that the frame is not bad... everything else was cheap as sh*t. I bought it used last year for $150 and have put $450 into it! He he...
Steel is real.
Last edited by jakerock; 03-04-09 at 04:49 PM.
03-08-09, 06:09 PM
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I'll give you 75$ for the frame ... 
I just did this to my goose, slight hickup. Chainring is Alu, & the crank is steel . I some how made it work. I just added slag to the crank untill it filled up the hole a little better. ( had to fart around with the settings to slow the wire speed & not turn up the heat so much that it burns the alu. out of the way, creating a bigger hole. )
It took so much of the anoying-ness ( is that a word ? ) out of the drive line, it rides ( & skids ) like a different bike ... so now I can notice the slack in the chain without the anoying & distracting "clunk" .
.
.
.
I just did this to my goose, slight hickup. Chainring is Alu, & the crank is steel . I some how made it work. I just added slag to the crank untill it filled up the hole a little better. ( had to fart around with the settings to slow the wire speed & not turn up the heat so much that it burns the alu. out of the way, creating a bigger hole. )
It took so much of the anoying-ness ( is that a word ?
) out of the drive line, it rides ( & skids ) like a different bike ... so now I can notice the slack in the chain without the anoying & distracting "clunk" ..
.
.
Last edited by martinus; 03-08-09 at 06:13 PM.
03-09-09, 02:42 PM
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OKAY, LISTEN CAREFULLY:
the chainring will literally fold under the pressures of fixed gear riding. the weld will do nothing to help you, i can promise you that.
it's not meant to take the abuse of fixed gear riding. you cannot compare the abuse of bmx to the abuse of fixed gear. the wheel still wants to push you forward when you resist/skid/whatever, which puts pressure on the chainring. since one-piece cranks use a single-bolt system, that bolt takes all the pressure. it developed play because of that pressure, but with the weld there is no way for it to develop play. instead it'll fold.
furthermore, that bike doesn't derserve the $450 you put into it. you should've just taken the money and bought a kilo tt.
the chainring will literally fold under the pressures of fixed gear riding. the weld will do nothing to help you, i can promise you that.
it's not meant to take the abuse of fixed gear riding. you cannot compare the abuse of bmx to the abuse of fixed gear. the wheel still wants to push you forward when you resist/skid/whatever, which puts pressure on the chainring. since one-piece cranks use a single-bolt system, that bolt takes all the pressure. it developed play because of that pressure, but with the weld there is no way for it to develop play. instead it'll fold.
furthermore, that bike doesn't derserve the $450 you put into it. you should've just taken the money and bought a kilo tt.
03-09-09, 03:58 PM
#36
helmet brake
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OKAY, LISTEN CAREFULLY:
the chainring will literally fold under the pressures of fixed gear riding. the weld will do nothing to help you, i can promise you that.
it's not meant to take the abuse of fixed gear riding. you cannot compare the abuse of bmx to the abuse of fixed gear. the wheel still wants to push you forward when you resist/skid/whatever, which puts pressure on the chainring. since one-piece cranks use a single-bolt system, that bolt takes all the pressure. it developed play because of that pressure, but with the weld there is no way for it to develop play. instead it'll fold.
furthermore, that bike doesn't derserve the $450 you put into it. you should've just taken the money and bought a kilo tt.
the chainring will literally fold under the pressures of fixed gear riding. the weld will do nothing to help you, i can promise you that.
it's not meant to take the abuse of fixed gear riding. you cannot compare the abuse of bmx to the abuse of fixed gear. the wheel still wants to push you forward when you resist/skid/whatever, which puts pressure on the chainring. since one-piece cranks use a single-bolt system, that bolt takes all the pressure. it developed play because of that pressure, but with the weld there is no way for it to develop play. instead it'll fold.
furthermore, that bike doesn't derserve the $450 you put into it. you should've just taken the money and bought a kilo tt.
As for your comments on the value of my bike....
What I have learned about FG bikes by upgrading and maintaining this beast has been fun and invaluable. I would know far less if I had just gotten this bike off the shelf.
For me self-sufficiency, knowledge, mechanics and riding are all connected to my experience of bicycling.
I am happy with the path that I have taken.
Have fun!
-Jake
03-09-09, 04:11 PM
#37
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i thought of doing this to my schwinn but i went the BB conversion route with new crank set. All together was just about 70 bucks but looks like you have got it goin so woo woo.
03-09-09, 04:15 PM
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Please don't ever say that again.
03-09-09, 11:06 PM
#39
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OKAY, LISTEN CAREFULLY:
the chainring will literally fold under the pressures of fixed gear riding. the weld will do nothing to help you, i can promise you that.
it's not meant to take the abuse of fixed gear riding. you cannot compare the abuse of bmx to the abuse of fixed gear. the wheel still wants to push you forward when you resist/skid/whatever, which puts pressure on the chainring. since one-piece cranks use a single-bolt system, that bolt takes all the pressure. it developed play because of that pressure, but with the weld there is no way for it to develop play. instead it'll fold.
the chainring will literally fold under the pressures of fixed gear riding. the weld will do nothing to help you, i can promise you that.
it's not meant to take the abuse of fixed gear riding. you cannot compare the abuse of bmx to the abuse of fixed gear. the wheel still wants to push you forward when you resist/skid/whatever, which puts pressure on the chainring. since one-piece cranks use a single-bolt system, that bolt takes all the pressure. it developed play because of that pressure, but with the weld there is no way for it to develop play. instead it'll fold.
The only way a chainring can fold is if it encounters lateral force. This is not something that normally occurs on a fixed gear bike, or any bike for that matter. Any force that makes a 1pc crank chainring fold will also make a three piece crank chainring fold. That kind of force does not occur when pedaling or resisting on a fixie, any more than it occurs on a coasting bike.
03-10-09, 12:55 AM
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maybe folding was the wrong word, as it implies total lateral failure. but still: the force is taken entirely by the chainring, which was not manufactured to take the force of skidding.
there's a reason why se used a once piece crank in only their single speed bike. there's a reason why bike shops don't convert drafts to fixed gear.
there's a reason why se used a once piece crank in only their single speed bike. there's a reason why bike shops don't convert drafts to fixed gear.
03-10-09, 11:23 PM
#41
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On top of this all, I've been riding a one piece crank fixie for about a year and a half. There is absolutely no sign of failure in the chainring, of all places. I weigh 225 lbs, and can be seen mashing my steel rustbucket all about West L.A. After breaking forks, handlebars, bottom brackets, chains, and even aluminum cranks, on various bikes over the years, the chainring of a one piece crank is about the last thing I'd worry about.
This is news to me. I don't see why they wouldn't, except to steer a customer to a more expensive bike.
03-10-09, 11:40 PM
#42
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I just dont get why not upgrade the cranks now instead of waiting till you get a "fancier" bike.
Why not upgrade now, and then when you do get a new one, you'll already have nicer cranks on it.
Why not upgrade now, and then when you do get a new one, you'll already have nicer cranks on it.
03-11-09, 08:02 PM
#43
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I'll chime in even though it's a moot point. I emailed Sheldon Brown just before he passed about this EXACT issue I have on my Schwinn Varsity fixed gear (see crappy pic attched). He took the time to email me back and basically said live with it. He said I could try to shim it somehow, but steered me away from welding it because he thought it would anneal (soften) the metal and was not worth the risk for such a minor concern. He also praised the strength of the one-piece "Ashtabula" crank and wished me luck. Good enough for me. It's cool you welded it, I'm just thinking of your safety (I'm a Dad). I'll wish you the same good luck he wished me. Peace.
03-12-09, 07:39 AM
#44
helmet brake
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Yeah, still think that the one piece is fine for now... Now we even have Sheldon's blessing! (Thank you November)
The only reason to upgrade for me is because I WANT a new frame with more intense geometry, and at that point I have to buy a new crank / BB.
Also, there is no "reason" why a shop wouldnt use one of these frames on a fixed gear build.
Quite the opposite actually, its a strong steel frame with somewhat relaxed geometry... good for a beginner, especially here in NYC.
[CAUTION: Editorial]
Most of this naysaying is just ego-driven hot wind, not words of compassionate advice from experienced riders. From these one piece cranks, to my SE frame, to other threads I have been in lately where folks dissuade you from doing anything and everything because they read it somewhere, or it doesnt look cool or expensive enough. (I shouldnt even TRY to build a wheel because I stripped a lockring...??? WTF)
Seems that these naysayer types arent the majority here, but they certainly do alot of posting.
High fives for the "nice, regular folks"!!!
[/Editorial]
Best, Jake
The only reason to upgrade for me is because I WANT a new frame with more intense geometry, and at that point I have to buy a new crank / BB.
Also, there is no "reason" why a shop wouldnt use one of these frames on a fixed gear build.
Quite the opposite actually, its a strong steel frame with somewhat relaxed geometry... good for a beginner, especially here in NYC.
[CAUTION: Editorial]
Most of this naysaying is just ego-driven hot wind, not words of compassionate advice from experienced riders. From these one piece cranks, to my SE frame, to other threads I have been in lately where folks dissuade you from doing anything and everything because they read it somewhere, or it doesnt look cool or expensive enough. (I shouldnt even TRY to build a wheel because I stripped a lockring...??? WTF)
Seems that these naysayer types arent the majority here, but they certainly do alot of posting.
High fives for the "nice, regular folks"!!!
[/Editorial]
Best, Jake
03-12-09, 09:37 AM
#45
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As one of the naysayers I feel compelled to respond.
Dear jakerock,
The ego-driven hot wind that you have been reading in your threads isn't because anyone read anything anywhere or because your bike isn't cool or expensive enough. It's the fact that you consistently fail, post it up on the internet and then vehemently defend your failure. Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly endorse learning how to work on your own bicycle but you seem to be skipping the learning part and going straight to the working on your bike part.
And if you're wondering why I seem to dislike you so much I can only say I'm not quite sure. 99.9% of the time I'm a nice guy. It could've been the cycling cap thread, your avatar or maybe all the overused images you choose to respond with half the time. But whatever it is every time I read one of your posts I catch myself mumbling insults under my breath.
Dear jakerock,
The ego-driven hot wind that you have been reading in your threads isn't because anyone read anything anywhere or because your bike isn't cool or expensive enough. It's the fact that you consistently fail, post it up on the internet and then vehemently defend your failure. Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly endorse learning how to work on your own bicycle but you seem to be skipping the learning part and going straight to the working on your bike part.
And if you're wondering why I seem to dislike you so much I can only say I'm not quite sure. 99.9% of the time I'm a nice guy. It could've been the cycling cap thread, your avatar or maybe all the overused images you choose to respond with half the time. But whatever it is every time I read one of your posts I catch myself mumbling insults under my breath.
03-12-09, 04:39 PM
#46
helmet brake
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As one of the naysayers I feel compelled to respond.
Dear jakerock,
The ego-driven hot wind that you have been reading in your threads isn't because anyone read anything anywhere or because your bike isn't cool or expensive enough. It's the fact that you consistently fail, post it up on the internet and then vehemently defend your failure. Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly endorse learning how to work on your own bicycle but you seem to be skipping the learning part and going straight to the working on your bike part.
And if you're wondering why I seem to dislike you so much I can only say I'm not quite sure. 99.9% of the time I'm a nice guy. It could've been the cycling cap thread, your avatar or maybe all the overused images you choose to respond with half the time. But whatever it is every time I read one of your posts I catch myself mumbling insults under my breath.
Dear jakerock,
The ego-driven hot wind that you have been reading in your threads isn't because anyone read anything anywhere or because your bike isn't cool or expensive enough. It's the fact that you consistently fail, post it up on the internet and then vehemently defend your failure. Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly endorse learning how to work on your own bicycle but you seem to be skipping the learning part and going straight to the working on your bike part.
And if you're wondering why I seem to dislike you so much I can only say I'm not quite sure. 99.9% of the time I'm a nice guy. It could've been the cycling cap thread, your avatar or maybe all the overused images you choose to respond with half the time. But whatever it is every time I read one of your posts I catch myself mumbling insults under my breath.
I am definitely learning though! I hope you are too.
I am definately surprised and dissapointed that I made so many enemies here on the forum with my thread about the hats. I have definitely become aware that there are some sensitive and angry people here who do not share my sense of humor.. Seems that no amount of subsequent humility / passage of time is making any difference to people who have been rubbed the wrong way by my post about the hats.
Last edited by jakerock; 03-12-09 at 04:46 PM.
03-12-09, 06:20 PM
#47
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you're right jakerock, i feel bad. let's bury the hatchet. my mom says you can come over to play! she's making grilled cheeses.
03-12-09, 06:22 PM
#48
helmet brake
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03-12-09, 07:57 PM
#49
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dude, i'm serious!
03-23-10, 04:21 PM
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I don't know if anyone still cares about this topic, but I found it via search function whilst working to solve the same problem...
It seems that any time anyone converts a bike with a one piece crank to fixed gear this problem pops up, so I figured I would take the time to share my solution for those who do not want to weld on the chainwheel.
I chose not to weld it on in order to maintain the possibility of interchangeability of parts, and I understood that the few millimeters of slip between the drive pin and the drive pin hole do not make a difference performace wise (except perhaps for track stands), but even so, I wanted to solve the problem anyway.
It ended up being a simple procedure of cutting a strip of aluminum from a Tecate can and folding this lengthwise a couple times in decreasing intervals to effectively make a "stepped" wedge about 1/4 of an inch long. Compress this wedge with a pair of pliers, then insert it into the space between drive pin and hole, pushing until seated firmly, finally folding and crimping the edges so it stays in place.
I may have to add another layer or two as the aluminum compresses further, and once the setup has completely settled I might add a small drop of JB Weld between the wedge and the chainwheel just to keep the wedge in place (not JB Welding the chainwheel to the post/crank).
A similar process also solved my rattling brake lever... I knew cheap mexican beer had to be good for something!!
It seems that any time anyone converts a bike with a one piece crank to fixed gear this problem pops up, so I figured I would take the time to share my solution for those who do not want to weld on the chainwheel.
I chose not to weld it on in order to maintain the possibility of interchangeability of parts, and I understood that the few millimeters of slip between the drive pin and the drive pin hole do not make a difference performace wise (except perhaps for track stands), but even so, I wanted to solve the problem anyway.
It ended up being a simple procedure of cutting a strip of aluminum from a Tecate can and folding this lengthwise a couple times in decreasing intervals to effectively make a "stepped" wedge about 1/4 of an inch long. Compress this wedge with a pair of pliers, then insert it into the space between drive pin and hole, pushing until seated firmly, finally folding and crimping the edges so it stays in place.
I may have to add another layer or two as the aluminum compresses further, and once the setup has completely settled I might add a small drop of JB Weld between the wedge and the chainwheel just to keep the wedge in place (not JB Welding the chainwheel to the post/crank).
A similar process also solved my rattling brake lever... I knew cheap mexican beer had to be good for something!!
