john m flores 

LOL it's 2024 and we all are still on an Internet forum. What did you expect? 😂

Atlas Shrugged

Perfect succinct explanation of what is happening here. Humbled how well articulated and accurate yet so few words.

Leisesturm

Crabon wheels then? <running, ducking ...>

cweb99

Who needs the Kwik-E-Mart**********

I do………

tomato coupe

I guess it doesn't do any good to put that disclaimer in the owner's manual, does it?

squirtdad

it is not an imaginary problem if the manufacturers have specifically added the wording as a CYA And yes there are solutions, but the point was: carbon frames need a little extra care in handling as noted in the article

I will say my newest steel bike had a similar warning from the builder, so this certainly applies to all high end light tubed bikes, no matter what the material

I would disagree on the first point in that there are a significant percentage of people who buy high end CF bikes who never wrench, read the manual or understand the material. I have seen more than a few nice CF bikes hanging by the top tube on car racks

and none of this deals with simple thing like bikes falling and hitting top tube with handle bars

Koyote

Apparently you have missed the many bf threads about damaged steel and aluminum bike frames. Some of them have been quite amusing. There was the poster who had clearly dropped his aluminum frame's top tube into a door frame and put in a vertical crease… But he insisted it came from changing temperatures creating some kind of vacuum effect inside the frame. There was also a guy who took out his brand new, custom built, thin walled tubing steel frame on its very first ride, and let the handlebar twist around and slam into the top tube. Boy, was he angry! The builder, Waterford, would not give him a free repair. Richard Schwinn’s response was, “You wanted a lightweight steel road bike – you got it!“

Again, this is not a carbon fiber problem.

LarrySellerz

the steel and aluminum bikes are probably totally fine to ride safely in comparison to a similar problem in a carbon frame. Metal yields, carbon shatters. Sure aluminum will fail when put through enough small stress cycles, but it’s not comparable to carbon

terrymorse 

Right, aluminum is not comparable to CF. Aluminum fatigues, CF does not.

But if you think aluminum or steel gives warning before failing, it often does not. The first indication of a problem is the usually rider on the ground.

3alarmer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon...ers#Properties

3alarmer

dogmatic /dôg-măt′ĭk, dŏg-/

adjective

1. Relating to, characteristic of, or resulting from dogma.
2. Asserting or insisting upon ideas or principles, especially when unproven or unexamined, in an imperious or arrogant manner.
3. Characterized by such assertion, often with an unconsidered rejection of criticism.
   "a dogmatic adherence to a single educational model."

terrymorse 

The truth is that carbon fiber composite is amazingly resistant to fatigue -- way, way better than metals. When I write that carbon fiber "does not fatigue", that is for real world applications true -- if the composite was properly designed and manufactured. Fatigue life is one of the features driving increased CF use in aircraft:


FAA Report 2011


The other truth about composite structures is that they are complex, and manufacturing defects can occur that may alter their fatigue life. That's why well-designed composites include a margin of safety. Even with this margin of safety, CF's still stronger, lighter, and much longer lasting than an equivalent metal structure.

3alarmer

.
...keep the faith, Terry. When you start accusing Wikipedia of using " CF scare words ", the discussion has transcended the rational, and entered the realm of dogma.

elcruxio

Since you didn't read Terry's post, aircraft wings have been made out of carbon fiber for a very long time now. Even if CF doesn't have a definable fatigue life, it's certainly more than long enough for bike frames.

If we take a comparison. The F/A-18c has carbon fiber wings. The airframe is rated for 6000 hours of flight consisting of strains far higher any bike frame should ever experience. If you ride a bike for 6000 hours you can calculate how many miles that bike will accumulate. It's a few.

So whilst CF fatigue can't be ruled out, it clearly isn't an issue in bike applications.

If we're discussing ultra light frames, well then steel certainly doesn't have an advantage since with thin tubes with thin wall thicknesses the riding strains are well above the fatigue limit. That's partly why ultralight steel frames don't tend to last. With carbon, perhaps that's true as well but a carbon frame of the weight of an ultralight steel frame is still just a basic carbon frame.

3alarmer

...I read it. It's the classic knee jerk response to any suggestion of CFRP frame failures. "You know they make airplanes out of this stuff, right ?" Certainly the industry has learned a lot about what does and does not break in use, by a long running experiment in the real world of cycling and racing. Let me know when we get the cycling equivalent of the FAA. And the engineering design staff and oversight that exists at Boeing or Air Bus starts working for Specialized or Trek. I simply posted, verbatim, some of the text from Wiki on designing with CFRP. That's only scare words if you're a true believer.

Please, give it a rest. If you think I'm going to discuss this with yet another person here who seems more interested in scoring points than discussion, you're mistaken.

smd4

Too soon, maybe.

3alarmer

...damn kids !

Atlas Shrugged

Are you ok? Seriously, you must have 10 arguments going simultaneously and you go back over a week to dig up a throw away post of mine to re-engage and throw more fire on the chaos.

terrymorse 

Darn. Will someone remind me where the “ignore” feature is? It’s been a while since I’ve wanted to use it.

thanks

rsbob 

Dogmatic

When I rustle plastic in the kitchen my dog automatically appears.

3alarmer

...just click on your user avatar top right, select user control panel from the drop down menu.
Then look for "edit ignore list" over on the left in settings and options. Should open right up.

You're welcome. It's for the best. Good luck in all your future endeavors, etc. etc. etc.

3alarmer

...it reminded me of this more recent one. I guess it's another ongoing theme with you. nttawwt

Maelochs

Hey ... PrettyPonyPerson ...

ATTENTION.



There is some of the attention you crave. Hope it helps.

smd4

Really?

3alarmer

...I'm tiptoeing between the sand castles, here in the intellectual desert currently passing for General Cycling. It requires a great deal of my attention. Thank you for noticing.