KraneXL

A spurious correlation. But it is an interesting theory, worthy of more investigation. Actually, Austin has been listed of one of the best places to live in the U.S. Still, I suppose that doesn't make it perfect.

350htrr

Ha, Ha, That reminds me of, Oh.. Lets say about a half a dozen, passes with pick up trucks, and the passenger door opens, missing me by a few feet, clearly giving me a message to Get The F' off the road, because, it is their road, and I "should not be on it"...

relrrt

I am 69 years old and have bicycled twice across the USA. Yes, close calls happen on a bike as well as a car. This is a negative thread trying to bring out hostilities towards cars and trucks(which 99% of us drive). It's very senseless and ridiculous to whine about what has happened to us. Big Deal! Pay attention to what you are doing and enjoy yourself. #&%* happens crybabies.

DropBarFan

I suppose I should note that my urban/suburban miles dwarf my rural miles but still seems significant. Heh, I can never understand what the hecklers are hollering--they need to work on the diaphragm & enunciation!

BTW on the local bike paths the pointlessly rude cyclists have become very tiresome. Usually not scary for me but it can upset parents w/kids, seniors etc. On nice weekends I often keep to the road just so I don't have to see that attitude, ironically the motorists are more considerate in most of the local areas.

KraneXL

On the other hand, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease." If nobody ever says anything, nobody knows anything's wrong, and nothing will ever get any better.

DIY masochist

I've never been buzzed on purpose as far as I know. It could just be because I don't use mirrors and I can't see whether the car moved closer to me before passing, though. I have been passed recklessly a lot of times, but it mostly just seems like people who are driving too fast or aren't paying attention to their surroundings. I've ridden through almost all the Northeastern US states, and I've found that PA (home state!) and MD drivers are the most courteous. The scariest place I've ever ridden was Virginia between Wardensville, WV and Washington DC. Windy mountain roads with NO shoulder, tons of blind curves, and everyone is doing 60.

Probably the most unexpected and frightening pass I've ever had was by a giant truck hauling an entire prefab house. It had "oversize load" flags on the back and took up pretty much the entire 2 lane highway. I think it was somewhere in Maine or New Brunswick.

DropBarFan

I've long thought about a DC-WV tour but yeah,there don't seem to be any good bike roads between DC western suburbs & the mountains. I love my EVT SafeZone mirror which lets me see how overtaking vehicles are proceeding although it's no guarantee against a deliberately aggressive driver.

CreakingCrank

I'll take your answer as a no.

djb

ha, you know, I have to agree with this, when we drive our cars, once in a while there is a complete dickhead who does something just out of the blue and you wonder, what the heck what he was thinking, what a jerk.
so yes, once in a blue mooon it happens to us on bikes and yes, we are more vulnurable, so yes, it sucks, and the consequences are a lot more serious.

to sum it up, use a mirror and all of us can do is do our best at being vigilant and hope nothing really crappy happens.

baj2

If blue moons happen all the time in your neck of the woods, I'll agree. I'm pretty-much guaranteed to come across at least 1 jerk driver on any given ~40 mile road ride. Whether it's getting honked at in an annoying manner, passing unnecessarily close, or even some jackass in a diesel "rolling coal" just as he passes me. And I do use a mirror and am way more respectful of cars than they are of me.

There is a lot of negativity in this thread, but face it, there is way more negativity towards us on the road. I'm with the poster who said you need to speak up and start something if anything is going to change. Maybe we should start a GoFundMe page for some "Share the Road" billboard time or something.

baj2

Here's one thing you can do. It's easy and relatively cheap.

Several years ago, after a ride in which my mirror saved my life, I searched and found SEE BICYCLE bumper stickers. Made by a guy who has been hit by a car. He only charges to cover the cost of printing and postage. I sent him some extra money to support his cause, and he sent me a whole pile of bumper stickers which I donated to my LBS. So buy some bumper stickers if you want to do something other than just voice your concerns here.

SEE BICYCLES

FYI, these are the nice vinyl ones that can be pealed off w/o damaging the paint. If you are still concerned they adhere to glass as well. I had one on my last vehicle for 5+ years and it pealed off cleanly when I sold it.

djb

mr Baj,

of course this is a serious topic. Im not poo pooing it.
I have memories of close passes that really gave me a fright, and I dont frighten easily, only if something is really going to kill me. I raced motorcycles a bit with first lap bunches, Ive ridden my bicycle in cities most of my life, and have toured in some tough areas, so unless something is close to killing me, I dont get perturbed.
There have been some cases where I really had to wonder that the person driving a car or truck probably was a borderline psychopath, no one on coming, yet close passes that were just WTF!
I recall clearly one from 1991 on my first bike trip, a lumber truck that scared the living carp out of me, no one else on the road, but passing so close to me, and Im sure he was chortling away to himself going down the road.

now, to a bigger picture.
Here in the part of Canada where I live, the french part, bicycling popularity has grown and grown, so more joe blow mr and mrs smith people bike.
The more people bike themselves, the more a bike culture is in the population, the more car and truck drivers WHO BIKE THEMSELVES, will be more understanding and courteous towards bikers.
This effect has noticeably improved in the last 25 years, and one sees it in France, or Mexico or whereever, places where regular folks have personal experience riding bicycles, and so dont have the quote unquote "North American Driver" attitude of "get off my road" thing---broad stroke there, but you know what I mean.

big topic here, but there are some thoughts.

JoeyBike

You mean people should take responsibility for their own safety?! The horror!

"I rode my bicycle on a busy highway and bad #&%* happened!" "Boo hoo."

Yes. ^^This #&%* gets old don't it?

Marci

After years of riding horses on roadways and now bikes I have found it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch. I have had a few close calls due to my stupidity but a few (on the horse-not the bike) that leave me shaking in my knees as they come too close or do stupid things. One actually ran over the dog that was trotting a foot from the horses heel in the bike lane. Never stopped. So yeah there is asswipe drivers out there. We just have to be super careful. And make sure we are seen. If they see us and still push it, then its on them not us. Don't belittle us, it will get you no where.

DropBarFan

I think that the Montreal French culture is a bigger factor than the actual number of cyclists. In 1974 the Montreal Worlds attracted 5X more spectators than when held in USA. But even now, cyclists are a small minority of Montreal commuters.

Ironically the scariest city for bike commuting I've seen is Paris--skilled but impatient drivers that pass extremely closely in the narrow lanes. Also I've read that some Dutch drivers don't like bikers on the bigger roads.

rhm

Yes, I've been buzzed, plenty of times, in the last 40+ years. Just last week, commuting, a full sized truck passed me close and then proceeded to close in on the curb to my right, leaving me in a rapidly shrinking space. I hit the brakes. Was it intentional? I don't know, but I kinda doubt it. They have put bollards in the middle of the road along there, in an effort to slow traffic and make it safer for pedestrians, and effectively restricting the amount of space available for vehicles to pass cyclists. It was effing scary.

But other than that anecdote, I can't think of anything. It happens once or twice a year, I suppose, and I wipe it from my memory soon enough. For every ten thousand cars that pass me with plenty of space, one comes too close. And now and then one burns coal for my benefit. I'm not a fan, but I guess I'd rather have them burn coal than buzz me.

I know it's fashionable to blame the cyclist whenever it's not you, and I do not want to do that. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior. But there is a connection between how a rider rides and how drivers treat him/her. When I ride with other people, I often see a cycling style that annoys drivers, and I occasionally see a driver get annoyed at a cyclist riding in that way. In my experience, incidents of the kind we're talking about happen to the same cyclists over and over, while other cyclists are more often spared. I, for the most part, am spared. Why is that? Well, I can tell you I've had 9 flat tires so far this calendar year, which is below average for me. Cyclists who ride farther out in the traffic lane tend to get fewer flat tires.

I was riding somewhere west of Toronto last July, heading out of town during what might have been rush hour (or maybe it's always rush hour in Toronto). I was in the lead, my riding partner a little behind me. I was hugging the edge of the road as usual, he riding a little farther out. At one point a pickup truck pulled up next to me, and I saw the window rolling down. He did not honk, and he kept a reasonable distance away. I looked over and yelled, in the most cheerful voice I could manage, "Hey, what's up?" And the guy replied "Tell your buddy to move the **** over!" and then he moved on.

I don't recall what I told my buddy. I don't, in general, tell other people what to do.

Papa Tom

>>> ...The more people bike themselves, the more a bike culture is in the population, the more car and truck drivers WHO BIKE THEMSELVES, will be more understanding and courteous towards bikers.<<<<

Yup.

CreakingCrank

Not to single you out JoeyBike, but to all who have turned this thread into an anti-driver, anti-car rant ... and to those who have not-so elegantly bashed those rants.


The thread isn't about the inevitable close encounter or the occasional bad-apple driver that we all encounter somewhat routinely. We all consciously accept those risks when we pedal out into the streets. Its also not about whining about such incidents.


The thread is about a driver purposely using their vehicle as a deadly weapon to hit or intimidate a rider. The concept of "intention" is paramount to the thread's topic, one which some have failed to comprehend. I've always thought such purposeful actions were quite rare (and still do). When it happened to me, it made me wonder how rare. For those who have chosen to piss all over the thread, I can only assume it has not happened to you or you would have shared your story. Thanks to those who did share.

JoeyBike

No offense taken.

djb

what I can say is mostly anecdotall, but observational--in the last 20 years or so, recreational biking is done by a lot more people than before. Lots more people commute, and lots of folks over 40 do supported tours or day rides, and I really do feel I see a diff in that the more people who ride, regular folks, it get reflected in my patience by car drivers.

Im sure one could find data showng more people are into biking, and my experiences in other countries wehre bike culture is very strong and has a long history (specifically France) shows that folks in cars are just plain more patient and careful around bikes.
Also dont forget, in countries like France, grandmas use bikes and mobylettes, scooters, to get to teh village bakery or shops, so it stands to reason than joe blow french truck driver isnt going to be a dick if his grannie goes out on her bike to buy baguettes and cheese.

3speed

rhm

I did understand that, though perhaps my previous reply did not reflect this.

Yes, to be sure, I have experienced aggressive behavior from drivers whom I'm pretty sure I had done nothing to provoke. It's not that common. There's nothing I can do about it, so while I recognize it as a danger, it doesn't interest me much.

Far more common, are incidents where I can't be sure whether behavior was aggressive at all. But again, there's nothing I can do about it, so while I recognize it as a danger, it doesn't interest me much.

The thing that interests me are those incidents where a driver's behavior is indubitably aggressive, and that I seem to have provoked somehow. These are the incidents I would like to learn from, in hopes of minimizing them in the future.

CreakingCrank

Fair enough, and I agree with your points here. Wasn't looking for solutions or sympathy. Just wondering how frequently it happens.

rhm

Right! Well, it does happen. It's not your imagination. But it's not common, at least I don't remember the episodes for long enough to let them worry me.

One thing I have noticed: I clearly remember several occasionso when this happened when I was riding with other people. I think the shared experience, talking about it afterwards, raises the significance of the event in the mind. When this happens to me on my own, I forget it much faster. A corollary to that: if you can catch the offending driver and give him a piece of your mind, that too will raise the importance of the event in your mind. You will remember the altercation or the argument better than the offence itself. I've learned: it's not worth it. Let it go.

Another thing I should mention: any time you can have a positive interaction with a driver, it will improve your attitude. Just this evening on my ride home from the station, I had a rather tricky left turn to manage. Right lame goes straight, middle lane goes straight or left, left lane goes left. Car in the middle lane doesn't have a turn signal going. So, to left, should I be at the right side of the middle lane, or the left side of that lane? I simply went up to the window of the car and asked. Driver said she was going straight. I thanked her and said I was going left. All good.

Yes, that's a discussion for commuting, but it's equally applicable in touring.

DropBarFan

Cycling has grown in popularity in many North American cities including DC but I read % of bike commuters in Montreal is the same as DC at 4%. But in DC I guesstimate drivers have become ~twice as polite to bikers as back in the 70's while only <=20% of drivers do any cycling. So locally at least, I think the main reason motorists are more polite to cyclists is simply being more accustomed to seeing them on the street.