mattm

Around 2010 or so the pro ranks really did seem to slow down, I thought, but in a good way. The riding seemed a little more natural - guys actually got tired, their attacks didn't last quite as long, etc.

On the perfect vs **** it spectrum, I'd rather go away from **** it end towards something better.

At any rate, all of this banter is meaningless; you can convince everyone on this board that fees for cat 5's should be raised to stop doping, and... nothing will change. Write your congressperson and/or local USAC rep.

Doge

This is who was caught in the USA in the first two pages of the RaceClean page (linked above).

Capture.JPG

carpediemracing 

For Froome's stuff, can it be administered differently to have different/better effects?

In other words can the TUE be a false flag to hide illegitimate use of a similar/same drug?

The example I can think of is that the positive indicator for testosterone use flags you for two possible conditions - testosterone use or testicular cancer. So if someone tests positive for test, they could say they have testicular cancer, sit out a bit, have a magical recovery beating cancer, and get back to racing. The testicular cancer would hide the test positive.

big john

I'm surprised to see six women on there. And isn't Tammy Thomas transexual?

gsteinb

Doge

Tammy Thomas was listed as a reduction as current policy is not as harsh as when she was sanctioned. She was banned for life, but Travis thought 14 years was enough. I went with the pronouns in the reports. But as a percent of racers, females are sanctions more for doping in the USA.

TheKillerPenguin

My understanding is Tammy Thomas was juiced on the same stuff guys like Bonds and McGwire were using, and is not trans. Made her fast, made her look like James Belushi.

jsk

Cat 2-3 are paying $5, it's not just cat 1s paying the Race Clean fee although they are paying a higher fee.

topflightpro

This an interesting article on Tammy Thomas: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...homas/1958053/

It paints a pretty ugly, and yet entirely believable and likely, picture of USAC and USOC.

TheKillerPenguin

That's sad, and far more detailed and nuanced than the info they gave us at a USAC talent ID camp years and years ago.

big john

This surprises me.

But can she hit a 450 foot home run? I guess I remembered it wrong, or maybe some had speculated she might be trans.

Radish_legs

aplcr0331

Not sure if it works?


Have you seen the crime rates? Other than skyrocketing murder rates since August of 2014 in some larger cities the overall crime rates are dropping precipitously. Especially since the high levels of crime we experienced in the 90's.


It. Works.

crazyLSUalumni

Surprised at the amount of women. I wonder why they are so way over represented in getting popped

Doge

Guess? They are not naturally where the guys they likely train with are and might feel some justification "correcting" for it. Same reason those that have conditions that use PEDs feel fine taking them. We allow riders to correct for a variety of conditions, why not for naturally having less T? I really have no idea, but seeing actual data is useful to me. I went back a more pages (did not post) and there were fewer women. I found two USA guys in their 20s. USA doping busts are primarily masters and women, yet you have to go back 2 years to find a USA non-master (19-30) males who have been sanctioned. Maybe the youths are more careful, maybe they are in Europe (so not in that USAC stats) but what is clear is as a % of riders, the masters, and women are getting popped more. That is just data. Why? I don't know, but my earlier suggestion that the USA males in their prime may see more future and are "naturally" improving, by virtue of being males under 30 explains this to me, although I know others disagree.

Enthalpic

Read Freakonimics.

https://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levi...alized2001.pdf

rubiksoval

And being broke as hell?

My little roving group of delusional wannabes were sleeping 6-8 in a hotel room, driving from state to state chasing prize money when I was a 19-20 year old cat 1/2.

Could barely afford gas, much less some extravagant PED program.

tommyrod74

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/crime-imprisonment-rates/486014/

We have an incarceration rate 10x that of, for example, Germany. Ours is the highest in the world.

The states with the biggest drop in crime rate (California, for example) are also the ones with the biggest decline in incarceration rate (from the link above).

So, no. It's by no means conclusive that the two are negatively correlated.

tommyrod74

That's a fascinating link. Thanks for the read.

gsteinb

If you guys want to talk about politics, incarceration, or anything unrelated specifically to doping take it to the P&R forum

Doge

So it is for money?
USA stats show it is the 30+ year olds that are by far the predominant ones being caught. Maybe mom and dad cut them off at 30.

We guided my kid out of it a couple years ago, and kudos to him, he allowed it. But it is still touchy as just last night another junior buddy was a house guest and is off to Europe as a pro. Junior has a number of buddies that are going pro, while he's going to school. I don't drug test house guests, but I'm pretty comfortable these neo-pros are clean. It is something later that seems to snap and there becomes this justification. Just seems a sport worth avoiding as a profession. Depresses me quite a bit because I don't know. Unfortunately I wish I really knew, but I don't.

rubiksoval

Is what for money?

My comment was in regards to the apparent doper's demographic being masters racers (and women), presumably people that have a lot of disposable income. Contrast that to people in their 20s that do not usually have a lot of disposable income.

Doge

Were they doping to win money, but you clarified. You are saying they can't afford the program. I missed that. So you are saying mid-20s kids don't dope cause it is too expensive.

That works. As I mentioned, many of the real good ones are in Europe so we would not see the USA stats.
The reason is important to me, but for USA, it is clearly a masters issue. Almost solely.

Radish_legs

It's easier for masters to dope. They just have to go to a low-T clinic. They hear ads for these clinics all the time on the radio. They break no laws going to a low-T clinic. And so forth.

gsteinb

No seriously you do need to stop the discussion. Posting after the cease and desist ain't a good idea. I'll get an admin up in here.