Mobile 155

Do they still ban bicycles on Chinese trains? And are subways considered trains?

Passengers May No Longer Carry Bikes on Chinese Railway Trains - Tracking China

SHBR

That is why I bought a folding bike.

Pack it in a suitcase, and take it where ever you want.

Its been on trains, planes, buses, taxis, almost every form of public transportation.

Oddly enough its the bike I tend to ride the most.

My wife will use a rental bike when we travel, even though its not as good as her own bike.

I-Like-To-Bike

What are "commercial couples"? And why do they make you sad?

cooker

It's a capacity thing - the trains are packed. Fortunately there are bikes for hire in all major Chinese cities

Mobile 155

If you say so. But for a country that was once call the kingdom of the bike it seems strange. You know they have food restrictions on some trains as well?

Hong Kong?s MTR to ease rules on swearing and filming (but eating on trains still forbidden) | South China Morning Post

SHBR

I find its disappointing with your superior intellect that you don't understand what this term could mean.

Here is a hint though, its one of the oldest forms of trade known to man.

SHBR

Car culture is currently all the rage in the P.R.C.

Hong Kong has a different set of rules than mainland China. (people tend to spill and make a mess with food, especially young children, so its considered quite practical for short distances on H.K. trains)

Also, they can actually take bicycles on some of the trains in H.K. (usually with the front wheel removed, during off peak hours)

Mobile 155

Do you know why they changed from the LCF culture? I cannot believe how fast they have moved into cars. They already buy more than we do and we had a big head start.

I-Like-To-Bike

Still sounds like fabricated gibberish to me; whatever though. So why does it, whatever you mean, make YOU sad? Does it prevent YOU from living YOUR life the way YOU think YOU should?

SHBR

Still sounds like fabricated gibberish to me; whatever though.

cooker

Were they also the kingdom of food?

jon c. 

They're buying more automobiles because more people can now afford to buy automobiles.

cooker

But they still don't let you you bring your car on the train.

Mobile 155

Still, you can see where I am going with this? Even in a rather authoritarian country the car seems to be growing in popularity a lot faster than the people that have predicted here, “If people only gave LCF a try they would give up there cars.” Paraphrased by me.

Maelochs

Sorry, folks but people who have been riding bikes in all kinds of weather Really appreciate having cars.

People Want cars. It is noti not a conspiracy.

I mean, is indoor plumbing a conspiracy?

Car culture took off in China for a lot of reasons, but one big one is ... cars have windows, heaters, sometimes AC, and you don't have to work to make them move. And even if traffic is bad, trips don't take any longer ... but you are sitting down in a climate-controlled room on a padded chair listening to tunes, not sweating of freezing or both. And many of Chinese cities have so much air pollution it doesn't matter ... to them.

Does status matter and do cars show a person is doing well? Yes, but if they were painful tiring, and left you soaked in sweat or rain , plastered with mud, or frozen ... they wouldn't be status symbols.

People aren't going to lay down significant portions of their salaries and go way into debt for stuff they don't want and can do better without. Sorry I know this is supposed to be a fact-free zone ....

I am sure the religious fanatics who flagellate themselves think everyone else is crazy for not doing That, too .....

Walter S

It is according to the LCF (living commode free).

tandempower

People are willing to endure burden and hardship to achieve a better life. If they perceive the possibility of doing so by enduring the financial burden of car ownership and the burden of sitting in traffic driving, they will do so even if they would be happier living car-free.

Too many people simply don't have faith in the ability to prosper car-free. They see a wealthier class of people in the world who drive and they assume that by copying that model, they will gain prosperity. It is very difficult to come to realization that human life is simply what it is instead of distracting yourself with false hopes about how it would be different if you had more stuff and more money.

Mobile 155

Is this something you know from experience? Does that make them less intelligent or unaware than “simple” living people? I think they just may be as aware as anyone else.

tandempower

I think you just play games with pride-driven ignorance. Yes, people feel insulted when they/we hear there is something we're ignorant of that's important, but should that stop us from confronting such truths?

Mobile 155

I just wondered if you suffered the pains of success and had achieved the success you are now saying these people should learn to eschew. And now that you have achieved the joy of suffering you know these 20 million or so Chinese that left the LCF fold last year should be satisfied with living the life of low wages where camping at a pay site is a hardship. Is it hard to convince such a life is better than one where you can afford to visit other countries and experience different cultures? Because that is part of what success is all about. But then maybe if you explained the joy of suffering to the rest of us??

So again you know these truths because you have been where the ones that have gained financial success have been and found the experience wanting?

Maelochs

You got that right.

And for a huge number of people who are forced to be car-free, they assume that burden and hardship to get a car.

Well ... not in your world, but in the Real world.

Walter S

If only the sheep would follow the tandempower path and be enlightented.

It works for me. But I live in uniquely simple circumstances. It doesn't work for most of the people I know (well really I don't know ANY LCF just a few car lite) and they would rightly find your judgement of what will make them happy so rude and simple minded.

I ride buses regularly and I'm sure I'm rare to do it while not wishing for a car. I believe you would find the car-wishers and car getters somehow wrong-headed and misguided - if only they could see the light. Most of these people simplify their lives by owning a car and it may enable them to interact with their family and friends more seamlessly. There's nothing wrong with deciding that being car free is too extreme for you and drink up on life while you can. The whole carbon footprint problem will disappear in a few years. It's not a lasting social issue that we have to find a fix for or face ultimate dire consequences. The way you lay your values and morality out as though universally acceptable immediately discredits most of what you have to say.

This forum can be a place for people with an interest in driving less without it having to be seen as the only morally correct way to live.

350htrr

But sheep are sheep.. TP message is pissing into the wind, no, make that into a hurricane wind... of advertisement and what has become "normal" in todays society.

tandempower

You talk about success as if it's a question of pride and rewards. Success is about achieving goodness, the truer the goodness the better. Sometimes you find out something you think is good is actually problematic. This happened to me around the time of the first Kyoto treaty, when I was riding a bike and feeling like I didn't burn any fossil fuel, but then someone told me that passenger jets burn a lot of fuel as well. I had never thought about reducing jet travel, but at that point I started thinking about how to reduce it and now I avoid flying. In fact, I have realized that most if not all forms of industrial consumerism cause pollution and waste, so minimalism is the best way to pursue success in supporting environmental health globally, but of course one's effects as an individual are minimal compared with all the other humans so you have to learn to be satisfied with putting in a lot of effort and sacrifice without seeing the results directly.

You may view success in terms of how much money you can make and spend, but to me that is just a way to keep people working and obeying systems that aren't actually producing as much good as they are causing harm. Sorry if that sounds like rain on your parade, but I can't lie and say I see success in the same materialistic terms that you do.

tandempower

Yes, that's what I said. That people see the burden and hardship of driving and car ownership as beneficial sacrifices, and that's why they do it. If they recognized that car ownership and driving are more detrimental than beneficial. they would choose the burden and hardships of LCF just as easily.

The problem is there's an economic trap where to make LCF as lucrative financially as car ownership for the economy, you'd have to increase the expenditures of LCF to the same level. This would be wasteful, because bikes and bike lanes/paths are more efficient and inexpensive than cars and driving infrastructure.

So we're caught in an economic trap where we can't gain efficiency without lowering the cost of living, and too many people and businesses are afraid of making less money if the cost of living goes down. It's really sad because LCF is good for the environment and for people to save money and live better. It's only because of all the people who aren't efficient at saving money that we have to maintain wasteful economic norms to provide them with sufficient levels of revenues and income they can't live without.