peterws

Well, I don't know you. Nobody abused me; I just got ignored. Poor eyesight didn't help. I'm a boring ole geezer now and found it hard to make friends all my life. been round the internet (twice) and it's no better there . . .
Trouble is, we don't all come from the same planet. I don't. anyway.
A doctor's diagnosis is a snapshot of what he sees. If he diagnoses tablets, you don't have to take them. If he diagnoses mental issues, you're under no obligation to believe him.
We don't fit very well into boxes, because we're not all square.
Just a few thoughts and best wishes. Peter.

55murray

You need to get on some meds. It is a sucky process, you will hate the first couple things they try, but you have to get on something.

Biker395 

This is genius.

NewATBikeComute

+1. I'm going to adopt this.

DaveQ24

I don't know what to say -- it took me almost 24 hours to get up the courage to come back here and read this thread.

None of these responses were what I expected.

Especially considering the idiocy of my initial post - crying in my beer about a foreseeable outcome to a situation I put myself into. I put the quarter in the gumball machine - why was I so damned shocked when the gumballs poured out all over the floor?

I guess I was praying I would hear something "lesser" from both of these consulting professionals, like "it's just stress, take one of these twice a day and forget about it" - which of course I knew, intellectually, wouldn't happen.

I'm reading all of this wrong, obviously. I walked out of the psychologist's office the last week feeling like I had an enormous "DANGER - KEEP AWAY" sign on my back - not because of anything I've ever done, but because of what I thought this made me. I've only ever been a danger to myself, physically, emotionally, spiritually. So yeah, I think about offing myself, a lot, I have, on and off, for years, and I tried it once and got very close to doing it. Part of me, right now, is pretty sorry I didn't - but OTOH, I also keep thinking about the amazing things I've seen, people I've met, and experiences I've had since that time, which I never would have had come into my consciousness had I gone through with shooting myself back then.

Hey, I have a really nice collection of bikes, part of my cray-cray since that time, but at least it's a "healthy" obsessive overreaction compared to some of my other possible choices - at least I didn't spend it on hookers and booze.

I guess what everyone here, on the thread and through some very nice PM's, is trying to tell me is "chill out, it's going to be OK".

Which I appreciate more than anyone can ever know, because frankly, right now I'm kind of alone in my personal life, I've lost most of my family to age or disease, and I really, really need some to just say "It's going to be OK" right now.

I'm going to try to follow your collective advice, try not to dwell on this thing, and try to make some forward progress in my life.

Thank you, I've very humbled by all of your words right now.

Siu Blue Wind

Dave, You may not know it but there are a lot of us here that have had pretty crappy situations (given our age, experiences and traumas we've seen) that pulled us down too and without the help of people that care, could not fathom even making it another day. But the important thing is to allow others that really do care to be there for you.

Coming here was a wise decision, you were able to see that humanity does exist and that you are really supported here. Some may laugh but it's true..people do form relationships online and it feels safe because we are behind a keyboard. But that keyboard is run by a human being with feelings, with a heart and with views from a different set of eyes. And you coming here allowed us to be there for you.

And for that, I thank you.

Because of this, you have enriched our lives and together we are all stronger.

qcpmsame 

Glad that you made time to read through these positive replies Dave, sounds like you felt our concern for you in them, super! Getting things in the open, and not held inside is better than just letting the issues tear you up inside.

Stick around, tell us something about that sweet bike collection if you would please.

Bill

rumrunn6

it is going to be OK. oh btw, feel free to change your psychologist whenever it suits you. some click better than others. some never talk, some talk too much. some barely listen & some only listen

Wheever

Yeah, this is critical advice.

I am a fellow abuse survivor and have suffered all the long-term consequences. But I keyed-in early, and got help when I was young.

In my early 20s I had a male psychiatrist with whom I had constant battles (he wanted me back in my family, and I knew they were poison for me.) He also browbeat me about finishing college, not in any way empathizing with my <cough> issues with authority. At some point he basically told me my only choices were to either go on anti-depressants, (which in the early '80s were a horror show. This is before Prozac, even.) or start having family counseling... with the very people who had abused the **** out of me, and continued to do so every time they had an opportunity. I challenged him on these "choices" and he sheepishly admitted that I could also have a consult with another therapist. So I did so, with his colleague who had an office upstairs.

This is important: so in tune were she and I, so empathetic was she to my issues with school (having had her own) that I walked out from that consult and drove up to a nearby college and picked up the admission materials. The single act changed my life, and likely saved it, for the college I applied to, and subsequently graduated from, was full of people who were like me: intelligent artistic...and broken to ****, emotionally. Many from abusive families. It was like we all had the same parents. And was perfect. I suddenly had this supportive giant family. And I had the time of my life.

My point: the right shrink can change everything. I was her patient for another 16 years, until she retired. If it hadn't been for her, I'd likely be long dead.

Find a good shrink. Get therapy. Let it hurt if it needs to. Go on with your life, finding joy where you can, love where you can, beauty where you can... because in the end, that's all that matters.

Keep us posted. We care.

rumrunn6

psychiatrists prescribe meds. psychologists do not. maybe you need them, maybe you don't. that's for experts to decide. but in my opinion, in the experiences of ppl I know, those that went to psychiatrists have always gotten drugs over counseling

mileslong

Dave, It was once explained to me that keeping suicide as an option for dealing with pain is the sufferer's way of feeling some control over situations they can not control. In other words, deciding to end their life, and their pain, is the one thing they can control and they ruminate on using that power repeatedly.

I wonder if imagining that you can have the final say in when you have experienced enough pain is a way for you to cope with the stressors you have faced? I am no shrink, just an average man who has looked over the edge a time or two.

DaveQ24

Hi guys. So I've managed to talk myself into a calmer place. Your responses to my post definitely contributed to my ability to do that. I think I was very caught up in an antiquated view of what "mental illness" means in 2017. I just had terrible fear that being "labeled" would mean rejection by virtually everyone - but, I've been pretty open about this with a few key people in real life and so far, I haven't felt any sense of anything but genuine concern and support.

Logic says I need a plan to deal with certain things, like starting to accomplish something at work, rather than sit and stare and obsess over the fact I can't. So I'm going to call in some favors and enlist some of my colleagues to help me get back on track.

I guess I need to stop looking at this as a moral failure and just see it as another challenge to get past. When viewed objectively, I have a pretty good life, I need to remember that.

Machka 

I work in health statistics. A good percentage of the population is "mentally ill" (usually meaning that they suffer from depression and/or anxiety) these days. It doesn't seem to be that big of a deal.

Siu Blue Wind

A great way to start Dave. That's really a good idea. A very positive idea.

LateSleeper

About 28 years ago I was diagnosed with dysthymia. I was having big problems at work and on my way to a divorce. I'd stopped taking vacations, because I needed to save my days off for mornings I couldn't get out of bed.

Therapy turned it all around. Not "let's blame your parents" therapy, but therapy focused specifically on giving me better skills for handling tough situations. Not only changing my behaviors by understanding how I had many more choices than I'd previously believed, but actively changing how I felt about certain things. Turns out we can often modifying our feelings if someone teaches us how. I didn't start out with much "emotional intelligence", but therapy helped me develop some.

My therapist came out of the "Neurolinguistic Programming" tradition, but I don't think that's a requirement -- you just need someone who's willing to focus on helping you learn practical, healthy "brain skills" that you don't have right now. One of those skills is something called "reframing". What I used to think of as past trauma is now just history to me, and holds no power over my life today.

Fortunately, I never needed drugs, because I think they would have slowed my recovery by covering up what I needed to be fixing. I did a year of individual therapy and a year of group therapy, and then I was done. I think it ended up helping my life and career more than graduate school.

Summary: Don't panic, but do take action. Your life is about to change for the better.

qcpmsame 

Now you are headed in the right direction with things. As others have said, don't feel obligated to remain with a therapist that isn't helping you to recover. Its your life and no therapist should be holding you captive to their treatment methods. Do what is going to help you to overcome these demons inside, and to be able to enjoy your life. Like you yourself just said, you have a pretty good life.

Bill

BobbyG

Volunteer to help those that can't help themselves. It is harder to get stuck in "neutral" when others depend and rely on you. I'm not suggesting you discount or ignore your feelings, I'm suggesting a way to take to focus off yourself for a while.

DaveQ24

The first sentence you wrote, which I quoted above, actually drives to the very heart of the most significant fear I have had since falling through the rabbit hole with this entire matter. Americans tend to be bad with detail; the 10 second soundbite or the 15 second video blurb seems to be the attention to detail that too many people exhibit, in my opinion (if that is worth anything right now?). When it comes to the issue of mental health, Americans seem to avoid the topic as much as possible, in the same way our society has avoided other difficult or "taboo" issues in the past, such as sexuality or domestic violence - ignore it as much as possible, and if not possible, make a snap judgment based on the most sensational images and ideas shown in the media.

It seems to me that many Americans equate "mental illness" in the broad, generic sense that the term covers everything related to mental health problems, with violence in particular, and with other very negative stereotypes, such as homelessness, substance abuse, and taking advantage of the social welfare system. It seems to be a pretty common viewpoint - in my own career of the past 10 years, I've encountered a number of people with various mental health problems and challenges, and unfortunately, I've heard some very biting, often cruel and definitely biased and stigmatizing comments made about them by others who either don't know them at all and are just making a snap judgement, or who should know better and are using very poor judgement in voicing these things.

I know that I'm personalizing a broad, societal attitude when I worry about how my newly-named, or "labeled" situation might by interpreted by people in my life. I know really big part of that is a great fear of somehow "becoming the monster my father was", or just of having other people think I was somehow like him - something that I have worked very hard NOT to be, in one sense, and yet to be honest, in my core, something that was NEVER hard at all, because I recognized the horror of what he was doing to me, my mother, and my siblings, as well as the pain he caused in our extended family when he completely shut them out of our lives, cut us off and isolated us. Once I was able, at about 5 years old, to understand that "this is wrong", I was able to pretty quickly develop my character, attitudes, and behaviors to go in the opposite direction. I have tried, despite all of my problems, to be a force for good in the universe.

So the thought that people would suddenly disregard all of that and merely see the "label" of a diagnosis really upsets me. My biggest fear and worst pain would be if someone were to think I could be capable of violence towards another living and sentient being (the stinging read ant colony I just nuked last weekend in my yard with Ortho doesn't count! because I've now got "PTSD" attached to my name. People who have NO CLUE what any of this is really like or really about make snap judgments based on 15 second soundbites about the 1 in 1 million diagnosed with something like PTSD or Schizophrenia or Bipolar or whatever who commits some heinous violent act - they remember the theater shooters, the school shooters, the bar shooters, and somehow every person with any kind of "problem" is either, in their mind, a "dangerous psycho" or a "pathetic waste of oxygen". Probably mostly because they're whistling past the graveyard, in denial about their own personal set of problems.

Even with that condition - which is basically the same as what I really feel like I have going on, CPTSD ("Complex" a variant form from long-term, multiple exposures to significantly traumatic events) - that isn't in my character, it never was; frankly, the typical reaction to a dangerous situation is one of three things, "freeze" where you become paralyzed by fear, "fright" where you duck, run, and/or hide, or "fight" - and I was never "fight" physically, and hardly even verbally when he was attacking me - my basic MO was to cower, instinctively "roll into a ball" and basically just let him do what he was going to do to me - he liked to hit my on my head because hair covers bruises.

I would be beyond devastated if someone ever thought I was "dangerous" to anyone else. My biggest fear out of all of this - I think I could survive if my career imploded, or my remaining family rejected me, but if someone thought I was going to hurt them just because of this thing I never asked for and frankly don't deserve, well, that would be too much to bear.

I spent too many years witnessing those things to ever want to relive them as either victim or perpetrator.
For example, witnessing, at age 7, your father hold your mother with a large knife at her throat for an hour, then finally see him cut her from ear to ear just deep enough to "warn" her, with a diabolical look on his face, after having spent that hour calling her every name in the book relating to sl*t, wh*re, etc because he imagined, something that didn't happen in the real world, only in his paranoid mind, that she slept with somewhere between 20 and 100 men each and every day while he was at work, as she sobbed and pleaded for him to stop - that kind of takes away any appetite you might have ever had for that type of thing.

Thinking about all of this, when I posted my initial thoughts two days ago, I was in a very despondent place over this; I guess I'm not giving people enough credit for basic decency, because I expected "torches and pitchforks" to be the reactions I'd get, kind of "get out and stay out, psycho". It really does help me to know that people seem to be willing to look beyond the diagnosis/condition/label and still see that there is an individual with some worth still there - finding the worth in myself is a big challenge, because that is part of the nature of the particular thing I deal with, something they call "toxic self-abuse", getting the messages from the abusive parent stuck in your head, on an endless playback loop, telling you what a miserable piece of human **** you are, and you will NEVER do anything right ... I'm heartened that other people seem to be able to see a little more value in me than I can see in myself right now.

Thanks again, this great soul-baring mea culpa has been extremely cathartic if somewhat messy, disjointed, rambling, and definitely NOT your "average" post on a bicycling forum. It just helps, guys, it really helps, just to know someone in the world doesn't hate me simply because I am in the place I'm at right now.

Up North

One cannot change, alter or erase history - good, bad or terrible. One can only control the future. Mental health is widespread 40-50% of people need help these days. Seek out help groups and others that have same issues, many will have good advice. Crazy is not where you are at, it is how you feel at present. You are not crazy, you suffer from an illness that millions of others have as well. Treat everyday as a new one, seek help and ride it's great therapy. You can find a happy place, it may take some time but have faith in yourself and you will find your happy place. Best wishes.

berner

I have the firm belief that the challenges we face are the most important events that shape us. Often enough, facing those challenges calls for no subtlety. What may be called for is the seemingly simple act of putting one foot in front of the other. I say seemingly simple because in a situation that may appear, hopeless, putting one foot in front of the other takes courage and that effort is what shapes us.
Best wishes,
Bern

Rider51

I'm no expert here either, but agree with the others. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Your issues are likely much more common than you realize.

I also agree with the others that counseling is probably the most help. I'd personally like to see you get off the prescriptions if you can, especially as you say they make you feel worse, but I'm no doctor.

In my youth I didn't have it as rough as you did, but my life was a real mess. I mostly got out of it by studying philosophy, and talking to enough people. There were two quotes from Aristotle that really hit me at my core. This was for me, and I'll type the quotes and what they meant to me. They are not meant as judgments about you, and your situation. I know too little about that. But maybe they can help.

"'The least initial deviation from the truth is multiplied later by a thousandfold."

I learned that no matter what the truth was, I had to admit that to myself, for bulidling on lies and omissions made everything worse. It turned out the truth of my problems was a much smaller pill to swallow than fooling myself or lying to myself, or others. It sounds like you're working fairly well at this. I mean, look at your post here.

"Pride is the crown of the virtues."

Aristotle didn't mean pride as in vanity or arrogance, like the seven deadly sins. He meant it as self-worth, self-esteem, and self-assurance. You must be proud of yourself, who you are, for what you are, no matter what your life is. Everyone has problems. Everyone. Because humans work to perfect themselves, also means we will never be perfect. Keep trying. Hold your head up high, embrace the truth, and be proud of who you are.

I kept looking for a rumored third quote from him in his writing. Something about how cycling cures all ailments, but I never came across that one.

Take care of yourself.

DaveQ24

Hi guys, again - then I'm going to drop this, it's been beaten to death already, it's kind of a major bummer - probably more for everyone else, and it's served it's purpose - I am again overwhelmed by the support, especially since in my mind's darkest place, I thought my several posts here were basically "Custer's Last Stand" and I would get emotionally nuked again, banished, and told I was a vile piece of psychotic trash who needs to go die in the gutter or be locked away forever in some facility for dangerous minds - not that ANY of that has any bearing on my actual reality, it's just fear raised to the 10,000th power with a dose of near-paranoia, a lot of rumination, a heaping helping of my own attitudes towards mental illness before the Karmic smack-down of this entire mess which boils down to some pretty extreme, ugly self-stigmatization, and finally, the fact that one of the lasting issues from my childhood, something that is also "classic CPTSD", my general self-esteem was horrible to begin with, about 13 on the 0-100 scale (again, thanks SOOOOOOOOOOO much, Dad) and this crashed it to about -187.

So honestly, because of everything all of you have said to me, and I haven't read a SINGLE negative or cruel thing, I feel MUCH less "crazy" than I did two days ago. Again, my intellect told me I was never "crazy" in the sense of - I'm not psychotic, I'm not manic, I'm definitely not sociopathic or any way like him, and I basically, when I'm in my "right mind" in terms of self-image, think (hope, pray, work hard at being" I'm a pretty nice and decent guy (I'm not a kid lover, that is again probably some deep way of avoiding pain) I love animals, try to be respectful and kind, and get along well with people once I get past my initial blech! of all of this.

What I have experienced are: pretty intense panic attacks and a lot of them; pretty vivid intrusive memories/flashbacks (not like I'm there, I just remember a lot of details I wish I didn't); "somatic illnesses" - like, I feel like crap a lot of the time, that just compounds my real-world, verifiable and quantifiable medical problems, lack of interest, difficulty sleeping, difficulty concentrating, horrible job performance; failure to attend to personal matters - thank God most of my bills are set up for autopay - well, you get the picture - I hope no one will ever equate what I'm going through - or what probably 99.9999% of the mentally ill people in the world - with the bad actions of those who are truly in a bad place, with dangerous sociopathic tendencies, such as the aforementioned mass shooters, like the guy who shot up the political gathering in Arizona (Gabby Giffords) or the Virginia Tech shooter or the Pulse Nightclub shooter last year in Orlando. I mean, hey, I know who I am, where I am, what's happening to me and with me, I kinda sorta manage my life in the sense I do the absolutely necessary OR the things that temporarily relieve the stress, and I guess I need to resolve in my mind once and for all that depression, even suicidal thoughts, don't make me "the bad guy" and neither does the fact I have been running to the men's room and puking my guts out during panic attacks for like, months now.

I hope the medications help, kinda early to tell, and frankly the "shell shock" of an actual diagnosis, hearing those words, after working with these 2 professionals in the field for a month give or take, kinda overrode any benefit I've had to date - plus this stuff is cumulative and has to build up - and, well, I'm not afraid of the medications per se, just hopelessly ashamed when I had to wait in line at the pharmacy then I felt like the pharmacy techs were all probably laughing at the "psycho" one of them had to wait on. I know, NOT reality (she was nice and didn't act any differently than when I pick up my asthma meds).

The therapist, well, twice a week, a trauma specialist, and I've been able to pour my guts out to him pretty well - mostly so far, these sessions are "back story" starting with my earliest memories and working up to now.

Ladies and Gentlemen of 50 Plus, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU - if I'm worth saving (yeah, I know, that self-esteem problem again in full force), all of you probably contributed to that salvation a lot more than you may ever know.

I think I need to be done here, if anyone wants to comment I'll read them, but maybe my nerves need to stop dwelling on this and try to get back to some "normal" - so I'm planning on riding a lot, getting back on my road bike and tri bikes more and my hybrid less, get into a good training regimen, do just a little recreational mountain biking in what passes for "hills" here (anyone from the mountain West or along the Appalachian spine or the Southern Highlands of Arkansas/Missouri would LAUGH and LAUGH at our +300 feet over average elevation "mountains") -riding was awesome therapy after my anemia diagnosis, after some losses in my life, it just helped a lot - nothing like the sense of freedom on a bike.

Peace and bless you all. Humbly,

"DaveQ" aka Danny in real life, Daniel David Q***********, a slightly addled old dude from somewhere in the wilds of Metro Detroit

Siu Blue Wind

Yeah well you ARE worth it!!

And yes, riding will do anyone good. That's for sure!

sooznd

Dave- I am new to this forum and don't know you at all. However I do have a son who was diagnosed with a mental illness when he was only 19. He will soon be 38. So that is half his life. He is on numerous medications and this past year was diagnosed with diabetes as well. I have struggled and grieved a long side him, watching his hopes and dreams never materialize.
I have also observed his courage and resilience as he attempted to finish college, and after 7 years he got his diploma with honors.
Today people stigmatize mental illness. People can have cancer or any other physical illness and everyone feels sorrow and empathy. For the mentally ill they hold contempt. We need to change this idea.
Keep riding your bike. Don't over analyze. Volunteer your time for some organization you feel passionate about. Take the focus off yourself, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Find a good support group, don't take this burden all alone.
You are stopping this cycle in your family. You are a beacon of light for future generations. Some time in the future, likely long after we are gone, mental illness will be looked at differently and there will be new treatments available. Best wishes to you.

Siu Blue Wind

Nicely said. sooznd, my well wishes for you and your son as well.