Old Fashion Pedal Power -- No More
03-09-18, 11:48 AM
#26
Senior Member
03-09-18, 12:10 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,126
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1050 Post(s)
Liked 1,311 Times
in
755 Posts
What I think is funny, is that some here seem to misunderstand what an E-assist bike actually is. With an e- assist, you still have to pedal, and you still get a workout, you just go faster with a given effort.
Though I don't have one, the local bike shop here let test one extensively, not because I was going to buy one, but they too wanted to learn more about it and wanted a review. The one I tested was from Specialized. The ride was incredible. When I first got on the bike, I was amazed at the acceleration. i got up to speed very quickly, but still had to make the effort. I live in Western Pennsylvania where it is very hilly. The assist worked well on the hills. It was nice, but again, you still had to make the effort, you just went faster.
If I had a very long commute, in a very hilly area, I think it would be great. You could cut the commute time down considerably, making more time at home for the family, and at the same time, have the same benefit of the exercise.
They are not mopeds, as some have suggested. I am sure some allow for power without pedaling, but those are not e-assist bikes.
Though I don't have one, the local bike shop here let test one extensively, not because I was going to buy one, but they too wanted to learn more about it and wanted a review. The one I tested was from Specialized. The ride was incredible. When I first got on the bike, I was amazed at the acceleration. i got up to speed very quickly, but still had to make the effort. I live in Western Pennsylvania where it is very hilly. The assist worked well on the hills. It was nice, but again, you still had to make the effort, you just went faster.
If I had a very long commute, in a very hilly area, I think it would be great. You could cut the commute time down considerably, making more time at home for the family, and at the same time, have the same benefit of the exercise.
They are not mopeds, as some have suggested. I am sure some allow for power without pedaling, but those are not e-assist bikes.
03-09-18, 12:33 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2953 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
I will grant that you will have some benefit of exercise, but the same? No.
The effect of exercise (training stress, if you want to be technical) is basically effort multiplied by time. If you exert the same effort for a shorter time, you'll have less exercise effect. If you exert less effort for the same time, you'll have less exercise effect. You're getting help (that's the whole point of these things, right?), and so you're not getting "the same benefit of the exercise."
The effect of exercise (training stress, if you want to be technical) is basically effort multiplied by time. If you exert the same effort for a shorter time, you'll have less exercise effect. If you exert less effort for the same time, you'll have less exercise effect. You're getting help (that's the whole point of these things, right?), and so you're not getting "the same benefit of the exercise."
03-09-18, 12:42 PM
#29
Senior Member
I will grant that you will have some benefit of exercise, but the same? No.
The effect of exercise (training stress, if you want to be technical) is basically effort multiplied by time. If you exert the same effort for a shorter time, you'll have less exercise effect. If you exert less effort for the same time, you'll have less exercise effect. You're getting help (that's the whole point of these things, right?), and so you're not getting "the same benefit of the exercise."
The effect of exercise (training stress, if you want to be technical) is basically effort multiplied by time. If you exert the same effort for a shorter time, you'll have less exercise effect. If you exert less effort for the same time, you'll have less exercise effect. You're getting help (that's the whole point of these things, right?), and so you're not getting "the same benefit of the exercise."
In my case it's 70% my effort per Km and 30% less effort by time, as I see it when I use the assist on level 1, which I do 99% of the time. 
and... most times I use the re-gen and that means pedaling going downhill too. 
03-09-18, 12:55 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2953 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
What I think is funny, is that some here seem to misunderstand what an E-assist bike actually is. With an e- assist, you still have to pedal, and you still get a workout, you just go faster with a given effort.
Though I don't have one, the local bike shop here let test one extensively, not because I was going to buy one, but they too wanted to learn more about it and wanted a review. The one I tested was from Specialized. The ride was incredible. When I first got on the bike, I was amazed at the acceleration. i got up to speed very quickly, but still had to make the effort. I live in Western Pennsylvania where it is very hilly. The assist worked well on the hills. It was nice, but again, you still had to make the effort, you just went faster.
If I had a very long commute, in a very hilly area, I think it would be great. You could cut the commute time down considerably, making more time at home for the family, and at the same time, have the same benefit of the exercise.
They are not mopeds, as some have suggested. I am sure some allow for power without pedaling, but those are not e-assist bikes.
Though I don't have one, the local bike shop here let test one extensively, not because I was going to buy one, but they too wanted to learn more about it and wanted a review. The one I tested was from Specialized. The ride was incredible. When I first got on the bike, I was amazed at the acceleration. i got up to speed very quickly, but still had to make the effort. I live in Western Pennsylvania where it is very hilly. The assist worked well on the hills. It was nice, but again, you still had to make the effort, you just went faster.
If I had a very long commute, in a very hilly area, I think it would be great. You could cut the commute time down considerably, making more time at home for the family, and at the same time, have the same benefit of the exercise.
They are not mopeds, as some have suggested. I am sure some allow for power without pedaling, but those are not e-assist bikes.
An additional 100w is a huge boost. If you've never ridden a bike with a power meter, I'd encourage you to borrow one. Ride for 5 minutes at 200w. Then ride for 5 minutes at 300w. It's immense.
Last edited by caloso; 03-09-18 at 01:04 PM.
03-09-18, 12:59 PM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,126
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1050 Post(s)
Liked 1,311 Times
in
755 Posts
I will grant that you will have some benefit of exercise, but the same? No.
The effect of exercise (training stress, if you want to be technical) is basically effort multiplied by time. If you exert the same effort for a shorter time, you'll have less exercise effect. If you exert less effort for the same time, you'll have less exercise effect. You're getting help (that's the whole point of these things, right?), and so you're not getting "the same benefit of the exercise."
The effect of exercise (training stress, if you want to be technical) is basically effort multiplied by time. If you exert the same effort for a shorter time, you'll have less exercise effect. If you exert less effort for the same time, you'll have less exercise effect. You're getting help (that's the whole point of these things, right?), and so you're not getting "the same benefit of the exercise."
03-09-18, 01:06 PM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2953 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
Sorry. I must have misinterpreted your post. I thought you were comparing the exercise benefit of ebike v. regular bike, not ebike v. car.
03-09-18, 01:19 PM
#33
Senior Member
Post 28.
My point wasn't to pick on phughes or to put down ebikes, but there seems to be an ongoing fallacy that provides the same or nearly the same exercise benefit as a non-powered bike, and that's obviously untrue.
An additional 100w is a huge boost. If you've never ridden a bike with a power meter, I'd encourage you to borrow one. Ride for 5 minutes at 200w. Then ride for 5 minutes at 300w. It's immense.
My point wasn't to pick on phughes or to put down ebikes, but there seems to be an ongoing fallacy that provides the same or nearly the same exercise benefit as a non-powered bike, and that's obviously untrue.
An additional 100w is a huge boost. If you've never ridden a bike with a power meter, I'd encourage you to borrow one. Ride for 5 minutes at 200w. Then ride for 5 minutes at 300w. It's immense.
What most don't seem to understand here, is that an assist E-Bike measures your input to the pedaling effort and gives you in my case 35% added to my lets say 100 watts so what I get is 135 watts at the wheel, for me to get 100 watts of assist I would need to put in almost 300 watts of pedaling effort, not going to happen.
03-09-18, 01:30 PM
#34
Senior Member
What I think is funny, is that some here seem to misunderstand what an E-assist bike actually is. With an e- assist, you still have to pedal, and you still get a workout, you just go faster with a given effort.
Though I don't have one, the local bike shop here let test one extensively, not because I was going to buy one, but they too wanted to learn more about it and wanted a review. The one I tested was from Specialized. The ride was incredible. When I first got on the bike, I was amazed at the acceleration. i got up to speed very quickly, but still had to make the effort. I live in Western Pennsylvania where it is very hilly. The assist worked well on the hills. It was nice, but again, you still had to make the effort, you just went faster.
If I had a very long commute, in a very hilly area, I think it would be great. You could cut the commute time down considerably, making more time at home for the family, and at the same time, have the same benefit of the exercise.
They are not mopeds, as some have suggested. I am sure some allow for power without pedaling, but those are not e-assist bikes.
Though I don't have one, the local bike shop here let test one extensively, not because I was going to buy one, but they too wanted to learn more about it and wanted a review. The one I tested was from Specialized. The ride was incredible. When I first got on the bike, I was amazed at the acceleration. i got up to speed very quickly, but still had to make the effort. I live in Western Pennsylvania where it is very hilly. The assist worked well on the hills. It was nice, but again, you still had to make the effort, you just went faster.
If I had a very long commute, in a very hilly area, I think it would be great. You could cut the commute time down considerably, making more time at home for the family, and at the same time, have the same benefit of the exercise.
They are not mopeds, as some have suggested. I am sure some allow for power without pedaling, but those are not e-assist bikes.
EXACTOMUNDO- I live jus south of Morgantown in WV and my 17mil each way commute has over 1500 ft of climb- its hard to do that more than once or twice a week and still have family time. the Ebike bike allows me to bike commute more often
03-09-18, 01:32 PM
#35
Senior Member
I will grant that you will have some benefit of exercise, but the same? No.
The effect of exercise (training stress, if you want to be technical) is basically effort multiplied by time. If you exert the same effort for a shorter time, you'll have less exercise effect. If you exert less effort for the same time, you'll have less exercise effect. You're getting help (that's the whole point of these things, right?), and so you're not getting "the same benefit of the exercise."
The effect of exercise (training stress, if you want to be technical) is basically effort multiplied by time. If you exert the same effort for a shorter time, you'll have less exercise effect. If you exert less effort for the same time, you'll have less exercise effect. You're getting help (that's the whole point of these things, right?), and so you're not getting "the same benefit of the exercise."
ill grant you per instance of biking its not the same as a regular ride, but if it allows you to use the car less and exercise more then the benefits are still there. and nothing stops you from going all out and training hard, you just move through space faster
03-09-18, 01:37 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Queens, NY for now...
Posts: 1,515
Bikes: 82 Lotus Unique, 86 Lotus Legend, 88 Basso Loto, 88 Basso PR, 89 Basso PR, 96 Bianchi CDI, 2013 Deda Aegis, 2019 Basso Diamante SV
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 943 Post(s)
Liked 172 Times
in
113 Posts
The problem with E-Bikes is that 20 MPH is too slow to ride in traffic when there are alternatives, so the best/safest place for them is on the bike paths and bike lanes. That may change if speeds are increased to 30 or 40 MPH (which is probably too fast for the E-Bikes). Perhaps we'll see a split between slow speed E-Bikes and high speed E-Motorcycles.
One thing the the Italians did was increase the driving age. I don't remember exactly what it was, but perhaps between 14 and 17 or so, one could get a moped license, but not an automobile license.
One thing the the Italians did was increase the driving age. I don't remember exactly what it was, but perhaps between 14 and 17 or so, one could get a moped license, but not an automobile license.
And yes, in Italy the minimum age for a <50cc scooter is low (thought it was 15 but maybe it's 14), and it's a great system. Kids have freedom to move around without being overly dangerous to others. They even started making 50cc "micro-cars" now, and you see quite a few of them around.
Originally Posted by General Geoff
An e-bike going ~20mph, can usually break 500mpg equivalent energy usage. Even if you get the electricity from a coal plant, that coal plant (due to economies of scale) is still far more thermodynamically efficient than a 30 or 40 year old moped engine.
Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
and it's going to be pretty hard for anything to compete with a 2-stroke for nasty exhaust!
03-09-18, 01:39 PM
#38
Senior Member
03-09-18, 01:43 PM
#39
Senior Member
About the same length as my commute. However, I drive 10 miles and ride 15 each way. Pretty sure the 15 on a human powered bike is more exercise than 25 on a battery powered bike.
03-09-18, 01:50 PM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times
in
177 Posts
I pedal the same way whether or not I have the wheel on the bike. I just go a little faster with the wheel.
03-09-18, 01:51 PM
#41
Senior Member
03-09-18, 01:57 PM
#42
Senior Member
EDIT; and yes, if I used 75% assist I would have only pedalled 6.25 Miles and you would have pedalled more riding less...
Last edited by 350htrr; 03-09-18 at 02:01 PM.
03-09-18, 02:00 PM
#43
Senior Member
MATHS A BIATCH AINT IT
03-09-18, 02:05 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,698
Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 677 Post(s)
Liked 427 Times
in
257 Posts
If you're going to move people to bikes, you need infrastructure that actually accommodates a decent volume of bicycle traffic at a usable speed.
__________________
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
03-09-18, 02:07 PM
#45
Senior Member
03-09-18, 02:10 PM
#46
Senior Member
That might be fine for a Sunday loop with your grandmother or the kids, but it looks like hell for actual commuting, running errands, or other applications where you don't have limitless time to deal with walkers, meandering cyclists, etc.
If you're going to move people to bikes, you need infrastructure that actually accommodates a decent volume of bicycle traffic at a usable speed.
If you're going to move people to bikes, you need infrastructure that actually accommodates a decent volume of bicycle traffic at a usable speed.
agreed, right now most places bike accommodation is a afterthought planned by people who don't ride, they wouldn't put cars on a narrow road like that with out split travel lanes....etc. etc.
03-09-18, 02:12 PM
#47
Senior Member
depends on what motor, your hills, your distance, your personal effort, and would you have originally only driven it then well ..nevermind I'm buying a Subaru cuz ebikes are stupid
03-09-18, 02:13 PM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2953 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
That assumes that power demand and, by extension, exercise benefits were linear with distance. (Spoiler alert: they're not.)
Last edited by caloso; 03-09-18 at 02:17 PM.
03-09-18, 02:16 PM
#49
Senior Member
You’re the rocket scientist. Figure it out. If you are using full battery power to climb, then it’s way higher than 35%, even if you are putting in some effort.
03-09-18, 02:24 PM
#50
Senior Member
well if I cared to do the math- at no point did you specify how much is hill, how much is flat, what the profile of the commute is etc..
but I don't really care to so let me go buy a Subaru for my commute becuz ebikes are less exercise than a normal one
but I don't really care to so let me go buy a Subaru for my commute becuz ebikes are less exercise than a normal one