TampaRaleigh

Did they charge extra for "frame stiffening"?

rhm

I do most of my own work. Even when my first Sturmey Archer 8 speed hub started misbehaving, just a few weeks after I had replaced the rim, I tried to pull it apart to find what was wrong with it. I found one of the ball bearing retainers had got completely chewed up; I found only little confetti-like bits of steel among the greasy balls. I removed them, but lost heart before I got too much farther into the innards of the hub. So I cleaned the bearings put it back together with fresh grease, and then proceeded to look for a mechanic who could do the job right. And indeed the owner of Kopps, in Princeton, told me he could. So I left the bike with him.

It took him a while. When i finally went back, he charged me $100, if I recall correctly, the standard labor charge for building a new wheel. The bike had a whole new wheel, new shifter, new cable; and he gave me my old wheel, in a bag, with all the hub parts he couldn't put back into it. He had completely destroyed the hub; got a replacement one from Sturmey Archer as if it were under warranty (it was well out of warranty by that time), and threw in the new rim and spokes on the house (mine were still good; but the new hub was 36h while the original had been 28h).

It turned out the Sturmey Archer website had a pdf on how to disassemble the hub, which the mechanic had followed; but the pdf neglected to mention that one of the threads had a left handed thread. So it really was Sturmey Archer's fault

I think I did pretty well....

Gingi

If anyone needs Suntour freewheels, let me know. I've a great co-op for parts nearby. Can't guarantee condition, but you get it for cost plus shipping. I even picked up a six-speed New Winner Pro there.

obrentharris 

It's a sad fact of life that most bike shops in this country have practically zero need for the knowledge of how to properly remove a freewheel or tap out French threaded cranks. (Driving seat posts into the frame or botching up a headset install are a different story - pure incompetence!)

It's another sad fact of life that most bike shops are either unwilling or incapable of paying the wages required by an older mechanic who has experience with older bikes or an exceptional young mechanic who has devoted the time and energy to learn about older bikes as well as the modern ones.

Perhaps we need a sticky for those on this forum who don't do all their own repairs: Something like "Shops that Know Vintage Bikes."

Just a thought....
Brent

shoota 

All that is true but just add another fact. Not only do most shops not know how to work on older bikes, they don't even the tools so it wouldn't matter anyway.

RubberLegs

While working on cleaning out and regreasing an old Shimano 6 speed freewheel, I was pondering just how much, and, or IF, any of our LBSs would even touch a freewheel, or charge to disassemble, clean, grease and rebuild....A lot does boil down to HOW much are customers willing to pay for a service....I think this leads to rushed jobs, lack of training, push to replace rather than fix....Good thing I'm not on the clock, I couldn't afford me! The NEW freewheels available just feel cheap, machining looks sloppy....how much better IS a 30 year old Shimano than a brand new Brand-X freewheel? I'm SURE the guys at the LBS can slap on that new one, clean and rebuild the old one....Hmmmmmm, not sure they would even try IF I could afford the charge! Just getting a 40yr old Regina off an old wheel....had to go to 4 different shops, and the one that HAD a Regina tool, didn't like the fit and refused to use it for fear of damaging his tool (or my freewheel), so I ended up taking it apart on the wheel, and using a BIG WRENCH on the body to break it loose....SUCH is C&V!

likebike23

In my 20 years of bike wrenching, I've destroyed my fair share of parts. Unfortunately, that's often the best way to learn, and I'll gladly pay the price for the experience. It's different when you are paying a "professional" to do a repair. The customer shouldn't have to pay for the tech's learning curve. They should compensate you for the destroyed part.

toytech

I am fortunate to have a couple of shops with old timer experience. Even so the only thing I ever get done is suspension rebuild and modification on modern mtb's. As simple mechanically as a vintage bike is it amazes me a bike mechanic would have any trouble figuring things out. Maybe it is my automotive background and being used to complexity an order of magnitude higher than bikes. Car wrenches do their share of bone headed stuff too though (me included) it is just more expensive.

Sixty Fiver

Amazing at how many people don't know this... my Suntour tool has been serving me well for a long time and I work on a lot of Suntour freewheels.

Powdercoat and proper paint jobs don't need time to cure because the finishes are baked, if the work isn't done right you get a brittle finish or one that has a poor bond and then chips happen.

Pro Compe freewheels don't grow on trees and think their street value is as much or more than an IRD. I might have one here in that giant mess of freewheels I have been collecting.

And yes, my mechanic is a fine looking fellow... he is a bit of a curmudgeon and and does not like what he sees at many bike shops where the staff might be passionate but in many cases are clueless when it comes to working on anything that wasn't made last week.

sloar 

just curious, how much do bike shops charge per hour to work on a bike?

himespau 

eh, I see a complete campagnolo tool set on ebay right now somewhere between $2000-2500. That's a good investment for the few times a year a shop sees a customer with a C&V need, right?

Bikedued

Little known fact. Improperly baked powder will shatter like the porcelain coating on an old washing machine. I suspect bad workmanship a little on both parties, but more on the powdercoater. I had that happen once, and the coater reluctantly redid the job (and correctly) for free.,,,,BD

I see Sixty Fiver beat me to it

Bikedued

Everyone can buy one from ebay, etc.. Yes, they owe him a freewheel, preferably NOS, which is the condition the OP's looked to be in.,,,,BD

richpool

I actually just did this, but the caliper arm snapped not the bolt. In my defense they are the worst designed brakes ever made. If you have ever used these or seen these then you know the quick release forces all the torque to the worlds thinest cast aluminum section on the entire caliper arm. I luckily found a forum member with a set and can replace. Hard to find and bad design... what more could you want when restoring a bike back to original. Pre Snap photo so you can see what im talking about.

rootboy 

I mean, look what some guys are asking for a new one? I'd be down chatting with the owner.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Old-Stoc...item3f25b9e56c

...although this one looks very nice,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suntour-Pro-...item3cd42211d6

Robofunc

I hear you on the vintage-specific issue. Although I did get a mechanic at one of those shops to re-thread an old Nervar crankset to standard threads for me. Only cost a sixer of good beer.

You should come by the co-op. We've got lots of old parts.

auchencrow

Doubtless you are entitled to a NOS replacement if you really want to go that way.
- Just make sure it actually IS a NOS item.
(I have deep-sixed nine-out-of-ten such FW's, because (with a new chain) I could make them skip under hard loading - even though they LOOKED like new FW's!)

-Personally, I'd just opt for a new FW with the hyper-glide ramps. These ramps are one modern innovation that actually works better than vintage.

auchencrow

"Replace vs. repair" is a common refrain I overhear in LBS's... The shops tell customers that they're throwing good money after bad when they ask to have their old bike serviced, when they have all these new bikes on sale.

- Obviously a new purchase will net more for the shop, which explains a lot about their priorities when it comes to repairs.

Sixty Fiver

$1.00 a minute is average for many shops although some charge more... my rates are so low my customers tell me I need to charge them more.

Mind you... I don't have a million dollars in bike stock, a ton of overhead, and a bunch of employees and only have to worry about the crotchety old mechanic showing up on time.

Sixty Fiver

It should look like glass but should not act like it... we do a lot of powdercoating on our own frames, racks, and forks every once in a while we have to re-do small sections and this is usually at junctions between tubes where you get anomalies in the electric field and really curvy frames are much more difficult to powder because of this.

My daughters '73 Raleigh was done by a friend of mine and he does brilliant work... she rode this bike for 4 years and could not put a mark in that powder save for one little hairline scratch on the top tube that stemmed from a really bad crash on gravel.

Like a true cyclist she was more worried about her beloved bike and she thanks my friend every time she sees him for doing such an awesome job.

RaleighSport

Reading this thread I have no motivation whatsoever to take my bikes to the LBS now... and this is out of line with what's been said, but I never secure my wheels with the QR or nut... never an issue with removal either. I use a fairly large vise on a very heavy and bolted down work bench, I always maneuver the freewheel tool so the prongs fit cleanly into the freewheel and the rest is held by the vice, I do make sure when turning the wheel left though that it never comes up on any side.. not very hard just apply slight downward pressure while turning. (Never broken a freewheel, or puller yet)

ColonelJLloyd 

More than $45? Maybe NOS, but why are people suggesting the OP's freewheel is new? How can it be when it was installed on a rear wheel? An IRD will perform better than the Pro Compe anyhow. The OP's freewheel isn't dead. It can be installed and removed using the same hammer/punch technique several more times I reckon. This doens't mean the shop doesn't owe him something and weren't idiots for not using the correct tool or refusing to remove it in the absence of said tool. But, if the shop employee acted like he did nothing wrong then that's not a good starting point in regard to making the OP whole again. And this type of thing is something that should be addressed on the spot.

I have two shops in as many blocks that are respectful, competent and forthright. Maybe that's abnormal, I don't know. I think I'm a very good mechanic, but I'm not dropping $300+ on frame facing tools or the like. So, there are some things I have one of my LBS' do. I'm friendly, not demanding and I often bring beer. I feel like a valued customer at those places.

Chombi

A classic application of Engineering methods and principles established by the famous Professor Daddes Gudenof......

jacksbike

It is sad to hear these stories of destruction. Like it has been said, today's shops have young mechanics that may have never seen these parts or the tools to properly remove them. Because bike shops make such poor profit, many cannot afford to pay a fair wage to an older (50 to 60ish) mechanic that has worked on vintage bikes and knows how to utilize tools correctly. By the way, having chewed up my fair share of SunTour 2 prong freehwheel removing tools in my liftetime, I don't think that anyone has mentioned this one:Before you put the tool in the vise, slide it into the freewheel and put a large washer and nut onto the axle to better hold the freewheel tool and prevent it from moving when applying torque-the put the entire shabam into the vise. I find that this stabilizes the movement of the freewheel tool and prevents, mostly, slippage. If it is a quick release skewer, tighten the tool against the freewheel with it.
In today's world with the cost of doing business, I believe that it is very hard for a LBS to justify the costs in time in working on vintage bikes. If a modern shop took apart an older SA 3 speed unit, how much would they charge for the 2 to 3 hours of time involved ? How many other repairs could be done profitably in that time period instead ? If shops made more money and profit, they could probably afford to do many of the small and time consuming older bike jobs.

Pars 

Like most here, I do almost all of my own work, other than facing, etc. So, I don't hang out at the LBS, but have found one that seems at least competent. I have had them face one BB, and I did have them remove a freewheel (it had been so long since I had done one that I had forgotten that you kind of have to pop it at first). Since I was standing there, they did use the correct remover, but the mechanic was old enough to know these things.

My impression of most LBS' take on the rebuilding of more complex parts is that most are treated as disposable now; buy a new one and they will install it for you. I could be wrong though...