Alas, poor Frederic! I knew him well!

To a degree. There are two, mutually incompatible, definitions of 'Fred' out there.

Someone who does not really care about looks, only what is practical, the anti-poseur.

Or.

Someone who cares only about looks. The guy riding the $4000 bike at 13mph down the MUP in full team kit. AKA poseur.

The OP sounds like a bit of both.

If there was already a name for "poseur", which was the opposite of "Fred", when did "Fred begin to replace "poseur"?

And what happened to the OCP crowd that used to be prevalent here?

A certified (or certifiable) fred would alread have duct tape in his large seat bag...and probably somewhere on the bike too.

This is BF...and if you continue to try to make sense of it I will have to strongly consider revoking your Doris credentials.

Yep, and zip ties, too.

I don't think I would fall under the "Doris" category, unless "Doris" can be applied to all female cyclists.

I just have a little trouble when terms are misused. Like "half-wheeling" being applied to "wheel overlapping".

Just another derogatory "F" word I choose not to use.

Before I started reading BF, i did not know about Freds, Poseurs and OCP. I just rode and raced my bikes. Today, that I am enlightened on these matters and I just ride and race my bikes. I must admit on last night's ride, I was passed by a hefty cyclist wearing a Cervelo Test Team jersey (It was not Thor) and I wondered is that jersey a Chinese sweat shop knockoff? How would one know?

I think I'm beginning to understand all this!


We're allowed to mock anyone who is a lot slower than us, 'cuz well, we can! Besides, what are they gonna do from way back there?

But also, it seems, we can mock those who are a lot faster than we are. This would account for the contempt so many seem to hold for much of racerdom. And I'm sure that while it so often sounds like insecurity, it really isn't. No, really, it's not. It's, uh, because they're so arrogant and elitist! Yeah, that's it!

I guess that means that the guys who are the fastest of all get to mock everybody. Funny thing is, they rarely do. Wait, what?

Female cyclists from Joisey are all Doris's - it's in the Fred guidebook on page 672.5, section 2, paragraph 36.

and don't forget, everyone gets to mock you...unless they are already mocking me.

Yep. The ultimate irony is we've ALL been in ALL those positions, depending: the slowest... the fastest... the thinnest... the fattest...

Ah yes. And that's why you're a Master Fred!

Ah, I see. I guess I'm doomed to be a Doris, then. Well, until I move.

we need freds to make our selves feel better

Hey Chipcon: Here is a complete cycling pecking order I found. I like it since I moved closer to the top being a trackie. Some of this is pretty funny.

Here's the Cycling Food Chain:
Roadies--Pros
MTBers--Pros
Roadies--Cat I/II
Trackies--All, but they must own their own track bike
MTBers--Expert
Triathletes--Elites
Roadies--Cat III/IV
MTBers--Sport
Roadies--Cat V
MTBers--Novice
Triathletes--Age Groupers wearing Speedos in a group ride (plus all of below)
Triathletes--Age Groupers with forward position, 650 wheels, aerobars and normal cycling clothing
Triathletes--Age Groupers on normal road bikes with aerobars
Tourists--Loaded, cross-country, self-guided tours
Tourists--Loaded, cross-country, guided tours
Tourists--Loaded, organized vacation group
Tourists--Non-loaded, organized vacation group in mountains (e.g. Pedal the Peaks)
Tourists--Non-loaded, organized vacation group in mere hills (e.g. Texas Hill Country Tour)
Tourists--Weekend century riders
Club riders with Fancy Road Bikes
Club riders with Normal Road Bikes
Club riders with Aerobars
Recreational MTBers (off-road only)
Commuters with fenders, panniers, and lights
Commuters with panniers and lights
Commuters on racing bikes
The Rest of the World
Messengers are orthogonal to this ranking.

If you are riding in a group, you gain Obnoxiousness Points for acting as if you are higher on the list, and Humility Points for acting as if you are lower on the list. Both points are Bonus Points, depending on who you are trying to impress.

Now, you must adjust your position based on the following Unspoken Rules (never read these aloud):

If your bike is Italian, you may move up one notch. If your bike is British, and you are a tourist, you may move up one notch; otherwise, you must move down two notches.

If your bike is aero, and you are a triathlete, you may move up one notch.

Move up a notch this year only if you have nine-speed. Move down a notch for each cog short of eight (nine starting next year). [Editor's note: It's next year, so subtract one point for each cog short of nine.]

Move down a notch if you have a triple up front, unless your are a tourist. If you are tourist and have only two chainrings, then move down to the Tourists--Weekend Century Rider rank even if you have panniers.

The Uniqueness Limit allows only two bikes of the same make and model in any one group. If the limit is exceeded, then all riders of the offending make and model must move down a notch for each excess bike.

If you have visible scars, you may move up two notches, unless you are a mountain biker. If you are a mountain biker and have no visible scars, you must move down one notch. If you have scars in an area that is not displayable in public, and you can persuade a member of the opposite sex to admire it, then you can move up two notches, but not in combination with below.

The above is correlated to the Getting Regular Sex factor. If you are getting any, and you are male, then move up four notches. Add two more notches if your partner is in the riding group. Add another notch still if everyone else is flirting with her. This factor does not apply if you are married, even if you are getting regular sex. (This section was not added by me)

If you ride a team jersey for any team you have never joined, then you must move down two notches. If your jerseys are tattered from use, then you may move up a notch. If you are a roadie, and wear sleeveless jerseys, then move down a notch. Drop a notch if your jersey advertises a brand better than the one you own. Drop four notches if you are wearing a T-shirt. Drop four notches if you are wearing non-cycling shorts (unless they are speedos).

If you do not shave your legs, move down three notches.

If you ride Campagnolo, move up a notch, unless it's Record, in which case move up two notches. If you ride Shimano, move down a notch, unless it's Dura Ace, which is neutral.

If your bike is titanium, move up two notches. If it is high-end carbon, move up one notch. If it is aluminum, move down a notch, unless it's a Felt, in which case you can move up a notch until it breaks. QR's are neutral, but only for triathletes. If you are a tourist, and your bike is not steel, move down three notches.

If you have aero wheels, move up a notch, unless you are a tourist, in which case move down a notch. If you ride tubulars, move up a notch.

If you ride with toe clips, then move to the bottom of the list.

Move up a notch if you train on a fixed gear in the early season. Move up another notch if you train on a real track bike. [Added recently: Move up four notches if you ride a fixed gear in the Virginia hills.]

Move down a notch for each stupid question.

Move down four notches if you use the phrase "I'm a triathlete" in any group of Roadies, Trackies, and/or Club Riders.

Move down a notch for each 15 pounds excess weight,unless you are wearing a Speedo, in which case move down two notches.

Pronounced cycling-short tan lines move you up a notch, but only in the Summer. In the Winter, such tan lines move you up two notches.

If, during the application of the above Unspoken Rules, you ever dip into the The Rest of the World Category, then you must stay there. Subsequent Bonus Points become null and void. Note that non-roadies may choose not to participate in the above ranking system. Roadie participation, however, is required. I hope this detailed approach to this serious problem will assist all of you in determining who to snub.

By the time I get done with all the ups and downs that apply to me, I think I end up somewhere in Albuquerque.

If you can't follow the scoring system above, don't go to Eur-, uh... er... Albuquerque.

Hmm. As a shaved legged Cat III with visible scars and a tattered team jersey, I'm pretty high up. Unless I happen to ride my race bike to work. And then I drop to the near bottom.


Actually, that sounds about right.

If I did my math correctly I am only 380 notches below "The Rest of the World".

Although from the incredible skill I have observed in every Triathlete I have ever been within a hundred yards of, I respectfully submit that they should be ranked below....well below the bottom of the above list.

Now see, this is the spirit of road cycling...when we all come together, put aside our petty differences, hold hands and diss on the tri guys...or hammock jockeys.

I can't believe I read all that. My head hurts.

That list is lacking. What about non-racing roadies who are neither tourists nor club riders? What about cyclocross? Do they fall under "rest of the world" or did the author completely forget about these groups?

What about multiple category types - like someone who rides mountain and road? Or someone who races road and track? Or someone who races road and triathlons? Do you pick your highest category or lowest category to start?

I miss the days when it was real simple...you were either a roadie or a tourist...or both, but never neither.

Exactly, I'm neither a tourist or a club rider, I ride a road bike. (be it ancient and festooned with accessories of questionable necessity.) I ride on roads, with no great hope for the slightest shred of utility.