Isn't it simple?
Let's say you have 10:1 users total between two products. (10:1 to keep it simple, might be more like 80:1)

Product A gets a lot of attention (10000 users) because it is cheaper, and a lot more affordable to consumers. A lot of people use "A" and the holes in the armour are a lot more obvious since a lot of people like to complain.
Product B gets less attention (1000 users) because it is cost prohibitive, but still consumers with money will buy it. Less people use "B", less people to complain, harder to find crack in armour.

(I give 3% because that's what most manufacturers have for defective products that slipped through Q.A.)
Now when 3% of each group comes out and complains about their product, you'll get 300 people complaining about how poor their experience about "A". This compared to 30 people who complain about "B".
The catch being... that product "B" must be a really good product, because of the price consumers are asked to pay for and it did really good in reviews by magazines, not to mention product "B" was the 2nd best the company had to offer. So it must be good! Most people will brush off that 3% defect rate as a "freak incident".

So the story is...
The larger your base users, the larger potential it has for people to end up with defective items. The more popularity you get, the more people will complain. Unpopular items (due to price or previous bad ratings, etc.) get a smaller base and less people total will end up with the defective one.

How many mavic wheels/rims are out there compared to the competition? That will answer your question

H1s come in 18, 20, 24, 28, 32h front, and 24, 28, and 32h rear. If you want a 16h front, get a 32h and skip holes

i have a set of mavic open pros on my winter/commuter. i beat the living hell out of them and they are damn near indestructible. and most people i know who own mavics like them.

I bought 3 sets of Ksyriums last year. 2 SL's and 1 Elite. None of them new. Didn't pay more than $300 for any of them and all were in perfect shape. Buy em used and they are quite inexpensive.

hi stan,

this was a dilemma i posed to my LBS. he recommended white industries hubs- as another poster pointed out they come in various spoke counts- and velocity rims. since velocity are handmade, he claimed you can order a custom set built with whatever spoke count you wanted. he said there were other options for low spoke count wheels as well, but we didn't get that far.

but as i said in my previous post, mavics are cheaper if you shop wisely. you can't say that a set of mavic ksyrium es's cost $1,200 (list price) when you can find them everywhere for less than $800.

You could shop around and get that handbuilt set for less than $600 I bet, the prices I gave were closer to MSRP, not from a internet only retailer.

My mavic elites were awesome. They held up remarkably well here where I bunny hopped them, rode em over cobble roads, raced them, crashed them, and rode 'em into potholes and they are still intact and required only minimal maintenance to keep them rolling smoothly.

I love Mavic. I think they have done a lot for the sport over the years. I respect their knowledge base and comittment to testing and development. I believe that when you buy a Mavic product you are buying something that has been designed, developed and tested extensively both in the lab and the real world.

Sometimes with other wheel part manufacturers I feel like I'm buying a product that came about because a Chinese engineer thought, "hey this could work" during his smoke break - someone listend and 2 weeks later you're buying the prototype.

That said I am not thrilled with Mavic's pre-built wheels. For me it is simply an issue of $/weight.

I think there are other products out there that can compete well against them and represent a better value.

In the end though I treat wheels like women. I'd never kick one that performs well out of bed.

I'm with you....100%...

In five years on the same rear I've broken one spoke. On the front, one spoke got 5mm out of true. I got mine the first year they did silver as stock on a CAAD7 R3000 Cannondale.

Two guys I know that are very good cyclocross riders use these in cross races. Never touched them in two years.

And I agree with the highlighted comment...I hear it all the time in the shop. It takes a lot of self control to keep from...

Loved my 2004 SL's... and LOVE my 2007 Ksyrium ES's. Got mine at Performance for $507.00 with a coupon. They ride great. Stiff as hell, they are bombproof, and they look great. NEVER had a problem with mine. Thousands of miles... PERFECT. I'm no rolling toothpick either. 190lbs, ex- bodybuilder. I put my wheels through it. Ksyriums rock.

Incorrect. I ride them because they work. American Classic. You down under pinhead. God help us.

When you get a clue, alert Reuters. It will be Big News. In the meantime, nobody deserves Neuvation wheels more than you. Order a set immediately. They will compliment those lovely American Classics of yours, you can have a 'Which is the Ugliest Wheelset' lack of beauty contest.

Hey, you may have a new "Doc Ray" here....

Incorrect.

Like in the actual bike world where one faces live customers, it's stunning how people can have opinions on things they've never used, tried, or about which they have any knowledge.

That's why I don't enter into discussions about molecular biology (I got that right I think...)

You're dead to me now.

^ like I said, we really get ripped off down here with the 'good' Ksyriums. They're not aero, and their mid-range ones ain't that light, so if their attribute is durability, why not just get some Deep Vs?!


This shop is one of the better ones. Check it out:
https://www.cecilwalker.com.au/category116_1.htm

Ksryium Elite $849 ($747 USD)
Ksryium SL2 $1140 ($1267 USD)
Ksryium ES $1590 ($1400 USD)

I just built a set of DT RR 1.2s with Ultegra hubs for $350

The propaganda machine rolls on...

I must have missed the part where they explain that the looks of a wheel are it's most important characteristic.

Awesome deal on the 1.2s. I'd be keen to know where you got those parts, as I'm in the market, as it were

You're right about prices, wheels are crazy expensive here, and the postage from overseas is pretty ridiculous to boot. I had a friend quoted $500 just in shipping for a wheelset

The selective quoting of elgalad's statements here is pretty ordinary. He makes some quite reasonable comments that Ksyriums are expensive (they are, at least in Australia), not especially aerodynamic, not especially lightweight, and that the spokes are expensive to replace.

Pcad, you appear to have a big stiffy over the durability of your wheels, which is great. I'm sure you and your ksryiums or whatever they are bloody called are very happy together and that you and your wheels will live many years together in wedded bliss. Just watch out for the sharp spokes..

No, elgalad is your new Doc Ray...

try to keep up...

Brother Cecil is ripping you off....I've got Es's & handbuilts at the same weight, so I reckon I'm qualified to talk about 'em. Firstly, You can build your own wheels at a lesser weight & a significantly cheaper price...ie Chris king Hubs, RR1.1 rims & white industies bladed spokes...a bit of shopping & the lot can be had for $1100 AUD. Kysirium ES's can be had from PBK for under $1000AUD (at your door)....both are awesome wheelsets. I've ridden probably 5000km on each & can't fault either...although the Chris Kings are now my everyday wheelset cos my wheel builder is a mate & I know WHEN I break 'em, they'll be fixed quickly & cheaply......as for the 'downunder pinhead' remark earlier.....at least we're not gunna elect a sheila President...c'mon iron my shirt!

do they still make that sound like a chainsaw when you freewheel, or was that DTs?

I have ridden Mavic for 30 years and I still have an orginal pair of mavic MA 40 built in late 70's still ride well and nary a problem, on my S/S.

I also have a pair of Wobler obviously different than the Mavic but bought those in the early 80's no problem either.

Now .
one bike built Mavic O.P D/A hubs both 32 spoke 14/15 gauge
2nd bike Mavic O.P. built up with C/k hubs 32 rear 28 front.
I weight around 183# and a masher not a spinner and quite hard on my bikes and wheels

Last week I trued the front wheel on my Waterford with the older Mavic O.P because it had a little hop first time I have touched it/truing in years.

I am not a mega mileage rider like pecad but I do average 100-120 miles a week so inmo they are great wheels,durable, lasting, and mid range pricing depending on the hubs you use

they still have the buzzzzzzzzz.

ok, I cheated a bit ....the rims are $120 each at any 'decent' shop, but if you 'know' someone you should be able to get them for well under $110. I got 64 DT Champions for ~$50. The hubs were 'new-very-old-stock' from Bicycle Recycle, and I built the wheels meself, so there's no labour.

Farkkkkkkkkk can we all fit in the batmobile? Classic1 is taking up half of me seat. ****. Whats going here? Oh Mavic. Meh. Can I take my lycra off now?