Just a question on 70's and 80's steel frames. What was considered light, ok, heavy, etc,etc. I know by todays standards this doesn't mean much, but was just curious.

If you're talking about the entire bike - I'd call anything under 25 pounds as light - anything under 22 pounds as very light - anything under 20 pounds as exceptionally light. Certainly other will have their opinions.

I missed the other part of your question. 25-30 pounds was average. Over 30 pounds was Schwinn.

Actually I was just looking at the bare frame weight. What a difference in the weight of some of the old components!

I had an '83 Schwinn le tour stripped down to the bare frame recently, and I weighed it: 5 pounds, 8 ounces. It's a 23" frame, with 4130 tubing.

Thanks, just what I was looking for. I just weighed a Schwinn Traveler Tru Temper frame at 5# 14oz.

Not sure on frame weight, but I have a 58cm Reynolds 531 steelie (Trek badged) with Campy Record, Mavic wheels (sew-ups) Cinelli bar and stem, Selle San Marco saddle and Dura Ace pedals that weighs in at 21.5 lbs. I built her in 78-79 (except for the pedals which came later).

She seems down right heavy compaired to my Madone. LOL.

Wow! 21 and a half in 78. I had a Belgian Flandria in 73 that went 23 that I thought was it. How do you like the Madone? Been eyeballing one.

Although not steel, one of the "light" standards that steel was compared to in the '70s was the Speedwell & Teledyne Ti frames... Speedwell weighed 3 pounds, 5 ounces with fork! https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Speedwell/ In the late '70s, the lightest steel frames were probably the 753 Raleigh Team Pros, and a few oddballs made from Columbus Record or KL. Not sure just what their average was, but they were pretty darned light (but not as light as a Speedwell).

I had a Viscount Aerospace pro with suntour cyclone, all the other
bits were still Lambert/Viscount with exception of the saddle (had
Avocet RIII?). It weighed just under 20 pounds.
(wait wasn't the aerospace tubing Alu?) nevermind.

1981 Peugeot PSV10 - Super Vitus 980 tubing and fork - 21 lbs.

Nope, straight gauge chromoly. Light + scary. Does the sub-20lbs include all of the front end and drive train, or just the pieces left after the fork + crank snapped off?

I have a Viscount, so I'm allowed to cast aspersions, right??

(And by cast, I am in no way making a pun regarding their use of casting for producing their ill-fated fork. Really.)

Yeah, the frame was built by a couple of guys in Wisconsin who formed a little known company called Trek. It is a beautiful royal blue with a bit of flecking, and I hand painted all the lugs and cuttouts yellow. I have actually had three of these frames, one was fitted with Suntour Supreme and I completely wrecked it in a crash. I replaced it with two identical frames both fitted with Campy. In the mid 80s I had one of them on my roof when I drove to pick up my then fiance in the city, I forgot it was there and proceeded to destroy it entering a parking garage...(no emoticon exists for this feeling). Its twin is the 21.5 pounder, and the 2d set of parts are used for just that.

As to the Madone, it is the 5.2 SL, and I grin ear to ear everytime I ride it! Oh, it weighs in at 17.5. I absolutely love it! On the flats, no difference in ride to the steelie (both frames are almost identical in geometery) and they "feel" the same too. On climb, the Madone is almost invisible, on the decent, well it feels like I am on rails getting pushed.

I can tell you, that I am less fatigued after a century on the Madone, than I am on my steelie, and in 3 weeks of ownership, have already clocked two centuries and a 75 miler.

Zac

Only Viscount owners (past and present) can cast asperations!

The sub 20 lbs. included the entire front end and Drivetrain!
I actually had no problems with the death fork, commuted with it for a few years
before it got recalled, then put the Tange fork on and weight went up a bit.
I don't think the Lambert cranks failed any more often than campy cranks
(maybe less), TA made good stuff.
I'd say more like "Light and whippy".

Marty

For just bare frames without fork, my lightest run from just under 4 pounds to 5 pounds even. All are 53 cm or 54 cm. Don

The pinarello I've been working on weighs 20.1 - with the OMAS titanium bottom bracket, campy victory tubular rims and conti sprinter sewups, without anything like bottle cages or pump. I'm almost certain that it was built with SL. I wish I'd weighed the frame and fork before I put it together. We should start a collection of various frame and fork weights for an interesting reference...

I originally posted this reply on the wrong thread........When I built up the '83 le tour frame I mention earlier in this thread (frame only weight: five pounds, eight ounces), I "modernized" it with a SRAM 9speed cassette (11 x 32), a used XT rear der., a touring crankset I found at Nashbar (48 x 38 x 28), 105 front der., new 36-spoke 700c wheelset with freehub (Nashbar closeout), BMX brakes on the rear to reach the 700c rim, 9speed bar-end shifters, aero brake levers, and Brooks B17 saddle (the saddle is hardly modern!). The old parts I used are: frame, fork, front Dia-Compe dual-pivot brakes (came off an '84 le tour, the '83 had center-pulls), headset, stem, handlebars, and seatpost. Just like with the bare frame, I weighed it when I got it done: 25 lbs., 6 ounces. Obviously, the parts I used aren't particularly light, but for a commuter/tourer, it's fine. I have no idea what it weighed with all of the original parts on it, it had not been a complete bike since about '84. Since I weighed it, I've added Gizmo clamps and water bottle cages, fenders, and a rear rack.

See this link for two early 1981 steel Bianchis, 18.1 and 19.7 lbs total weight.

https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...chi-81/pg4.jpg

The weights of mid-priced bikes came down substantially between 1970 and 1988. In 1970, a medium size Schwinn Paramount weighed 23 pounds to 25 pounds. The Paramount was one of the most expensive "factory" bikes sold. Mid-priced bikes weighed 26 pounds to 32 pounds.

By 1988, mass produced bikes from Taiwan selling in the mid-priced range weighed from 21 pounds to 23 pounds. Many of these "factory" assembly-line bikes were very competitive in weight and quality with the "hand-made" Paramounts, but sold for a far lower price.

I bet if you put the Schwinn components on your Madone frame it would weigh a ton. The frame is only a small portion of total bike weight. Bikes like the Madone acheive their weight by using very light wheels and components too.

Even for frames built with the same tubesets, the finished weight can vary subsrtantially, depending on the size, geometry, type of lugs and BB shell, and number of fittings. Back in the 1970s, the pros were so concerned about extra weight that it was one of the big factors in the reduction of the amount of chrome that we saw on the framesets.

Just thought I would toss this out there, Crazy-B: The weight of the frame is only a small percentage of the overall weight of a bike. I'm guessing, it represents, on average, 20-30 percent, tops, of the total weight of the bike.

So a person could take today's aluminum and carbon fiber components and an old Schwinn Varsity frame and build up a 16, 17 pound bike if he wanted to. That, or he could take a modern carbon frame, slap on some steel clinchers, a steel crank, steel this, steel that, and wind up with a bike that weighs over 30 pounds.

What I have started to see from this thread that frame weight is way less important than component weight?

My '88 Reynolds 531C Gitane weighs 22 pounds built up as a fixed/SS. That's with caliper brakes and a Zefal frame pump. 700x28 Armadillos on MA3/Phil wheels. Steel fork. Size 55cm.

I should have weighed just the frame when I had it apart, but I didn't. I will next time.

Frame weight is significant, but component weight will make a bigger difference.

That said, the ride qualities of different frames varies considerably. Good, light steel feels different than cheap, heavy steel, and is light years from "feel every bump in the road" aluminum. Generally speaking, a light steel frame feels much nicer than anything else (being an average weight rider who rides on decent roads).