Anyone ever experienced racism in road riding, team selection, training, or generally thought that it was just the haughty attitude of cat 2 wannabees but in fact it was something more covert/sinister than that?

Personally I never really cared. I don't go looking for that garbage as there are plenty of people around who want to find it themselves.

I could care less what you background is, it all comes down to skill - something the pro teams probably concern themselves with as well.

Here in S. Cal we have it all and no one has ever said anything that I've ever heard, whether it's in a big group ride, a race or on my team that would imply racist motives. When you can find Rashaan Bahahti, Tony Cruz, Tomo, or any other multi colored hammer on the rides or races, it's kind of discourages that sort of blather.

I've never heard of any, and seriously, if there is such a thing as an honest-to-gosh "meritocracy," athletic endeavors totally fit the bill. If you've got the skills, you will rise to the top, and the only exceptions are for those unfortunate souls who injure themselves. Obviously certain sports are more popular among particular ethnic groups, and cycling is no different, but if a dude is green, and can ride like Lance, he will be top dog. 'Nuff said.

Is there a problem in Spain?

There is a lot of obnoxious behavior in the road racing culture, and a real tendency amongst a substantial number of road racers to exclude anyone new or perceived as inferior, but in my experience its not limited to any particular skin color.

I've dealt with the same

Spain is a very old country where lines are drawn immediately.

Never an issue here.
We'll reserve the right to make fun of your choice of bikes, but we won't notice the color of your skin.

You are being vague. Why don't you tell us what happened to you? This sure sounds personal. Were you the victim of racism?


Tim

I have had something happen to me here in NJ....involving our men in blue. It had nothing to do with my bike riding skills, just the neighbourhood I was in and the fact that I am black and own a nice nike. I posted a thread about this when it happened and got some rather interesting responses. It appeared to me that there were alot of people who refuse to acknowledge racism even when it is thrown into their faces.....sad but true. It would, however, help if you were to be a bit more specific about what happened to you.

Cheers,

Brian

I doubt this has anything to do with your bike. If a minority person walks or drives in certain neighborhoods, they have a good chance of meeting the men in blue. That is just life in the USA.

I think that the disparity between caucasian and non-caucasian will probably have to do with the fact that bicycle road racing is primarily a western european sport, and it wasn't until the last 20 years or so that Western Europe has had a significant non-caucasian population. I doubt it's anything related to racism. As for the elitist attitude among racers, well it's a western European sport Sorry, just fooling around. I think it has to do with the fact that it's a sport for people who can afford expensive stuff. However, I'm not saying that all wealthy people are snobs, I know many fine wealthy people who are very down to earth. I'm just saying it comes with the territory.

I am glad I started this thread cos lots of interesting things are coming out. Whilst I have been living on and off in Spain since 1996 this is not my country of origin. I have never experienced racism here, maybe ignorance of other cultures and religions, but nothing on the scale of what you experience in England. The so called melting pot of culture, religion and language is not so. And as a ethinic minority rider and after years of indirect racism one sometimes wonders about the attitude of some. Dusting someone on a climb or outpowering them on a false flat. Outdoing them in a tt, you on a standard road bike, they on a tt bike, working on a chain gang......who is this guy who doesnt fit into our social lives, social expectations??? Shouldn't he be playing cricket???? In Spain no such problems. Maybe one gets used to racism and expects it as normal and natural???

Okay but I am still curious as to what compelled you to post this thread. Did something happen to you and, if so, what was it?

Ok, there is racism in all sports...there is no way around. If you have a black teen and a white teen with the same amount of ability...the white teen is going to find it easier to break into the business. The white teen will be given more oppurtunities to suceed than the black teen simply because the white teen looks more like the pro peleton than the black teen.

Dude, if I went into all the racist incidents I have found myself the vicitim of on and off the bike then this would turn into a survival guide. People talk about being abused by motorist for being a cyclist, what about being abused out on the bike by other road users for being a non-white. Adds another dimension, n'est pas? Yes ability does speak for itself and the guys who jeers at you cos you have a better or worse bike certainly shuts up when he is clinging to your wheel at 20-22kph on a 6% extended climb. We all know that Roadies can be *******s ( which is one reason why mountain bikers turn to mtb sport. Maybe it is worth it to dust a pinarello roadie on a climb while you are on a 15kg mtb!!!!))) The point is that we have to distinguish between the inherent roadie elitism and racism. The two are different but do discrimate. The US has a plethora of races and cultures in most sports. In the UK there are certain sports which are barely touched by ethinic minorities such as road cycling.

Only once on a training ride, and it wasn't really directed at me. I'm Mexican allthough you would never guess by looking at me most people think I'm middle eastern. I was on a training ride once and I come up on this guy and we start talking. Soon we are riding by a contruction site and this guy starts goin' off on "The f'n ******** this and the f'n ******** that", he went on and on. After about ten minutes of this he seemed to have gotten out of his system so I introduced myself (with my very mexican last name) and he about turned plaid. He hemed and hawed and said of course he didn't mean me as I was obviously a good hard working American.

People are freakn' morons, it's your character not your skin color that matters.

Yeah, I see racism all the time. At the races when blacks would show up they couldn't keep up like ANY beginner and even though everyone was trying to be helpful and supportive they would leave believing that they were somehow inferior.

That was racism pure and simple.

There's an Oakland, CA, club called the Yellowjackets that has a large proportion of black riders that are REALLY good. Some are Cat 2 or even 1 grade riders with natural talents out of proportion to the others in the group. But they avoided racing because it was a white sport. They didn't want to be beaten by whites because their egos were too fragile.

I'm sure that there has been white racism against blacks here and there. After all, people are human. But the vast majority of cases I've seen have been a whole lot more imagined than real. The fact is that I've seen whites a great deal more supportive of blacks than otherwise and that being mistaken for a superior attitude.

And I've heard racers saying that they missed those same blacks on the training rides or in the races. Maybe that's a form of racism as well, but the only way to integrate and gain another's trust is to force yourself sometimes.

Just out of curiosity - if you were German and he had gone on about Nazis would it have disturbed you? And if you introduced yourself as Helmut Schmidt do you suppose he would have been disturbed?

The fact is that illegal immigration has nothing to do with Mexican-Americans whether natural or naturalized. The problem is that wholesale illegal immigration is causing a great deal of stress in the society and it is against the law.

I go off on illegal Mexicans as well and the truth is that my grandfather and grandmother were illegals.

A quick little lesson here:

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Nowhere do I see the 3rd definition (yours) where it states that racism = inferiority complex. You sir, have revealed yourself.

Yes illegal imagration is a problem but the mere fact that this guy thought every hispanic who was working on that contruction was a '*******' was proof that this went further than just imagration. If someone see's a black guy in an expensive car and says 'drug dealer' is that ok just because some black guys in expensive cars are drug dealers?

This thread really needs to be locked down. It is getting out of hand.

Tim

Probably cos they're used to seeing Indian/ Pakistani lads playing cricket than riding bikes. Which is ironic really cos in India and Pakistan everyone seems to ride a bike.

Am i rascist for assuming that youre asian?

Of course not. Do I think youre less of a man than me cos youre non white. No.
Am I stereotyping you? Perhaps...

If you wanna ride then go and ride. Like a previous poster said , sometimes i takes one "pioneer" to change a lot of bad attitudes.

At one time black footballers were thought to be "lazy" and wouldnt be able to play in the english winter because it was too cold......and this was the generally held view!!

And remember, the first asian league player only played for Bury about five years ago...


Yes cycle racing in england IS very "white" so you're bound to appear "different"

To me "different"="diverse"

To some people "different"="threat"

But i think youll meet more people who think like me..

Hey "dude" it was you who broached the subject. Forgive me if I foolishly assumed that you had a point, or were leading somewhere.