I-Like-To-Bike

How about you Trackhub, answer this: WTF difference does it make to you what bike Chipcom or anybody else rides? And does it alter the value of his comments or opinions? You can answer with as many words as you can but I doubt if any will make a lick of sense.

dedhed

It seems like many of the posters don't have kids in the real world or live on a budget. My kids all started on Xmart bikes bought both new and used. I've never had any real problems with them and they have been abused. OK, I had to weld the front axle mounting tab back on a fork, but that bike was backed over once. I'm sorry but I wasn't going to buy $200 16" or 20" bikes to have them stolen when they're at the creek (or ridden through the creek), left in the rain, run over in the driveway and these things have all happened to one bike or another. Yes it helps I know my way around a bike, own tools and know how to use them, but really do little in the way of maintence on these bikes besides lubing chains, repairing and filling tires, and adjusting heights as growth occurs. Our current fleet has a 16" Magna that's on about it's 4th or 5th kid, a pacific 20" 5 speed, and a couple of Murray "doom" 20" five speeds at the cabin. My two teens now have a Raleigh MTB and a Trek 7100 bought at the LBS. They also abuse them much less and take better care of them.

vegcrow

Correct! 130 messages in one week here. Certainly I've never used a forum before.

Just so you know, I save rational thought for rational people. The psycho-babble is just for you (or hadn't you noticed?). I still suspect that a spandex-clad bully beat you up as a child. Your silence on this matter will be regarded as affirmation. Otherwise the hostility toward local bike shops and "real cyclists" just makes no sense and it's keeping me awake at night.

Oh yeah, the cheeseburger remark-- classic! I can't believe nobody has ever said anything like that to me before. You are a hoot! Well said, I-Like-To-Bicker. Well said.

(I'll lay off now. You seemed kinda wound up; I thought I'd give you a chance to vent at somebody. Have a great weekend! You can smack me down in private, or post it here if you feel the need. I'm not going to pollute this forum any further; my 130 posts worth of forum experience tells me it's all going downhill from here...)

genec

Frankly I have seen exactly what you are talking about in the brick and morter LBSs here of a very large scale internet bike seller. Several local shops used to have very competent employees... They rode the wares they sold. Since this large internet bike seller has moved into the neighborhood and bought up several small LBSs, the staff has changed and frankly they are nothing but a bunch of snot nosed kids that I don't trust with a wrench. At least 4 local stores have gone this route of being sucked up by this corporate giant... and in every case the quality of worker and work done has gone way down. There are still independent LBSs, but few and far between. They tend to hire knowledgable folks... a short conversation with them and you can easily tell the difference between them and the "kids" at the "corporate" LBS.

Yeah, I pay more when I go to the independent... but then I also get name brand parts... not look-alike generic parts with a corporate logo. Does the name brand matter... in some cases, yes... just like name brand parts for your computer also matter. The fit is better, the software drivers (comp parts) are better... For bike parts the finish is better, the materials are better with many name brand parts.

So bottom line the issue is not so much X-mart verses the LBS, but distant corporate attitudes verses the shopkeeper that has to deal with you face to face.

To the corporation both you and their local shops are just numbers that either add up or don't. This is easily reflected in the "turnover" of employees at a "corporate" shop.

To the local independent LBS you are a customer with a name and the owner will have to deal with you time and time again... they want your repeat business... they need your repeat business. And if it means you pay a bit more... and the quality is there, you'll do it too. And hope the lattes are good.

There is an age old saying... you get what you pay for.

I-Like-To-Bike

Exactly! This lack of empathy and cluelessness about having responsibilities beyond meeting with one's comrades for a weekend training ride, raising children in the real world (especially on a limited budget), or recognizing 21st century economic realities permeates much of the advice/ranting found on the BF.

I can only guess who these clueless advocates think they represent besides their little clique of yuppie (or conversely yuppie dropout) "avid cyclist aficionados".

vegcrow

Thanks for bringing out the ol' straw man again.

Parenting requires planning. Put away $5 a month for a bike starting when your kid is born. It's not like you don't have 9 months to think about these things (transportation, college, clothing, etc.). By the time the kid is 10 years old, there's $600 (plus interest) for a new bike & helmet. I realize $600 is a bit much and age 10 may be too late; I'm just using round numbers which you can adjust. My parents didn't save up and they couldn't afford a new bike for me. So what did they do? They bought me yard sale bikes and made sure they were in good working condition. They did not buy me shiny garbage and assume that sparkle = safety. Do not confuse ignorance/inattention with lack of funding.

"But even if I have money, Wal-Mart is still the closest store in 100 miles!" Ever heard of UPS? Or a phonebook with which to find a mechanic once UPS arrives? Or a library or bookstore with books about bicycle maintenance? "But it's such a hassle, I just want to buy a shiny bike and be done with it!" Too bad. If you don't want inconvenience, use the $5/month on contraception instead of a bike fund.

Cripes, what happened to personal responsibility? Btw, these bikes don't seem that far out of reach, and at $5/month you can afford the bottom three in under 3 years.

dedhed

[QUOTE=vegcrow]Parenting requires planning. Put away $5 a month for a bike starting when your kid is born. It's not like you don't have 9 months to think about these things (transportation, college, clothing, etc.). By the time the kid is 10 years old, there's $600 (plus interest) for a new bike & helmet. I realize $600 is a bit much



Unfortunately I just spent that money on the new water heater, braces, 50% higher heating prices etc. I know, I should have planned for those things 15 years ago when I had my first child. From my experience even ten is a bit early for most children to be responsible enough to warrant a bike of LBS quality, at least here where we have a short season.

vegcrow

I hear ya. Don't get me wrong, I genuinely feel bad for the victims (the kids), and I wish the best for the parents and hope they sue the pants off Wal-Mart. It just bugs me to no end when people shut off their brains at the cash register. And like I said, my parents didn't save up either. An emergency trip to the hospital when I was a kid (among other disasters) pretty much wiped out their modest savings. (No college fund for me! )That's why I got the yard sale bikes and a can of spray paint. They knew better than to buy me shiny crap. When I got enough money to buy my own bike at age 18, I bought a new one-- a Huffy (shiny crap). It lasted about a week before the handlebars fell off and the front wheel twisted up. Now I know why they never bought me new things; the second-hand things were far better for the prices they could afford. (Are you listening, Wal-Mart shoppers?)

I-Like-To-Bike

Where do you get off giving lectures in family budgeting and parental responsibilities? Experience or your video games?

You already have indicated in the past week personal info about your divorce and food fetishes as well as hate for Walmart and contempt for those who don't purchase bicycles where the elite meet. What's next?


What happened to your promise/threat to leave this forum?

chipcom 

Veg, just curious, how many kids you got? I got two of my own, 4 step kids - all but one full grown now, and 3 grand kids. I must be an irresponsible putz because I had a hard enough time affording to keep the bills paid, let alone putting money aside for bikes - I usually got their bikes out of someone's trash and frankensteined them together, or bought a cheap x-mart special. Geeze, I had a hard enough time keeping my old beaters (bike and cage) in decent operating condition. One thing I have learned over the years - don't go spouting off about how irresponsible people who have less than you are until you've lived a few years in their shoes...which normally eliminates your need to spout off about how irresponsible folks who have less than you are.

vegcrow

I know, I know, you're absolutely right! I knew I was stepping in dookie with that one. Read a couple posts down, I don't come from the land of plenty. My mistake was letting I-Like-To-Bike irritate me with his idiotic remarks about clueless advocates and yuppie cliques, as though anybody who refuses to shop at WalMart is a clueless yuppie. I gotta just ignore that guy from now on. As for my kids-- Not that it's anybody's business, but since I did open that can of worms, it's only fair that I respond. I was going to have a kid with my ex. We summed up our ability to care for the kid, and decided we were unprepared and would not be able to provide the time, attention, and money necessary to give it a good life. So, moral or not, we decided to abort in the first month. Considering how my relationship worked out with her, it was probably for the best. Now I'd like to adopt with my new wife, and when that happens I hope I can live up to my own standards, but we'll see! I will promise you this much-- no WalMart bikes. To anybody I offended, my apologies!

vegcrow

What, The Sims doesn't count?


I have a food fetish? Oh-kay. I guess spaghetti is kinda magical. (You're the one obsessed with what I eat, so who's got the fetish, hmm?) Yes, I hate WalMart (not the people--including friends--who shop there). It's that "elite" crap you keep bringing up that I can't figure out. As obvious as it is that I hate WalMart, it's equally obvious that you are disgusted by people in spandex who like to buy nice bikes. I understand why I hate WalMart, but I can't figure out your aversion to spandex. (Half of my spandex, by the was, is in the form of hand-me-downs. Do I automatically inheret elite status from the previous owner's ass stains?)


Sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel threatened. Did I promise to leave the forum? I meant thread. This seems as good a time as any to make good on that promise, since there's nothing in here but a well-beaten dead horse.

I-Like-To-Bike

Uh Huh, I made you do it. You aren't responsible for your own posts, but play at being a Bicycling Ann Landers/Miss Manners lecturing about parental responsibilities. Except no one has to ask you like Dear Old (and Departed) Ann, you gratuitously and peremptorily chastise those who don't follow your advise.

Anything else to tell us about your personal life to add credibility to your clueless oversimplifications and rants about what everyone else should do in the name of bicycling advocacy?

And a Happy Kwanzaa to you and yours.

chipcom 

ILTB and I have often tangled, but I've found that even though our personalities mesh like water and vinegar, we do agree on a lot of things too. In fact he's made me realize that I had forgotten a lesson I learned long ago - don't let how something is said keep you from understanding what is said.

I'd also be careful about making promises you might not be able to keep. You may find yourself in the position one day of having to choose between getting your kid a bike and keeping your promise. You did say the kids come first, right? How many little kids bikes do you find at the average LBS?

chipcom 

Funny thing, ILTB, when we agree on an issue it almost looks like we're playing 'clown cop - bad cop'. Merry Christmas ya old grouch.

Edit: you might enjoy this: https://www.illwillpress.com/xmas.html

ItsJustMe

I have to agree that cheap bikes are mostly fine. My daughter is on her 4th bike, they all cost < $120, all bought at department stores. My son is on the 2nd of 4. The 1st was given away in good shape, the 2nd will be thrown out, it's worn out, the 3rd will be OK for him next year though it's a bit worn.

The kids ride them all over the neighborhood. Never had any trouble with them, other than standard adjustments.

If/when they decide they want to use a bike as a serious vehicle, then I'll get them something from the LBS. But so far they've put their hundreds of miles in on the bike within 15 minute's walking distance of home, and with someone mechanically competent looking at the bikes periodically I don't think they're going to get hurt because of the bikes falling apart.

I've never bought a WalMart bike, their prices are frighteningly low and I won't buy from them on principle (they destroyed the town I grew up in; it was a nice town, it's now nothing but a WalMart, grocery stores, banks, and a bunch of closed businesses). So they could be cheaper than other-mart bikes (and probably are, from what I know of their business practices.

I-Like-To-Bike

And a Merry Christmas to you. Which cop are you and who gets to work over the suspect in question with a rubber hose?

chipcom 

I'm the clown cop of course! You work em over with a rubber hose, I work em over with a rubber ducky.

CMcMahon

I've never even set foot in a Walmart, but I do have an interesting experience while trying to return a DVD that I already owned at Target last Christmas.

The person in front of me in line was trying to get their child's bike (an XMas gift) repaired, because she had said that "it felt weird". The Target rep told them that their bicycle maintence staff only came in on specific days of the week, the nearest of which was three days away.

I took one glance at the bike, and instantly realized the problem (beyond the fact that it was department store garbage): the forks were on backwards. The stem, bars, and brakes were all facing forwards, but the dropouts of the forks were behind the legs, instead of in front. Who the hell are they paying to put these things together?

I-Like-To-Bike

I don't know, do you? After all, you have figured out all there is to know about the assembly of bikes at department stores after glancing at a bike being returned to the wrong store, by a woman who maybe at least the third person to have messed with it since it left the original store. Do you even know which department store chain it came from? I assume that you of course knew it was garbage, no matter how it was assembled, since it came from the "wrong" source of approved bikes.

CMcMahon

I have my assumptions.


1) I never said a woman was a returning it; it was the girl's father.
2) Do you honestly think that the kid's dad - or the kid (who appeared to be about 11) - would have actually reversed the direction that the forks were originally in?
3) I was in Target. One would assume that if the person is taking it into Target for repairs, with a Target receipt, and Target's customer service is telling them to come back in a few days, the bike was bought at Target.


Go ahead, call me a snob; if I had kids, I sure as hell wouldn't buy them a bike made of welded Chinese gaspipe that's on sale for $45 dollars.

I-Like-To-Bike

OK. You are a snob.

Target, Walmart, WTF is the difference to another self appointed know-it-all offering snooty advice about buying bikes for kids based on personal prejudices and near zero experience with the subject.

EDIT:
I see you just became of age to drink a legal beer in the dorms; perhaps that explains why you think you are both so cute with the names, Beerman, as well as knowledgeable about purchasing things for children. Have you had Psych 101 yet? It will prepare you for psycho babblizing about everybody else's stupid behavior, just like the other xperts.

I-Like-To-Bike

It will take a lot of rubber hose and rubber duckies to get these Sorry California Know-it All Snobs to fess up that they don't know dung about cyclists, parents, and others who don't fit the approved profile of their own snobbish prejudices and fantasies.

jim-bob

What are you so cranky about, anyway?

CMcMahon

He's obviously cranky about the fact that we have actual topographic features in California.


I've had that nickname since 1999, actually, so it's been a while. I must say that I'm very sorry that I haven't progressed to that ripe old age where I'm balding, need Viagra to keep it up, and know everything that there is to know about cheap, mass-produced bicycles from the ROC, old man. On a sidenote, I don't live in the dorms.

Nope, I can't say that I've taken Psych 101. I'll just stick to reading Camus in my spare time.

edit: Also, don't try to feed me any of that "people that are poor or have a small budget can only afford those bikes" crap. I realize this. That fact doesn't magically turn those bikes into something quality.