Patentcad's Climbing Secrets
03-23-07, 07:52 AM
#1
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Patentcad's Climbing Secrets
It is with continuous amusement that I read threads here about 'how can I climb better' replete with hand wringing and teeth gnashing over gear ratios, compact cranks, lighter bikes, etc.
Allow me to reveal the secrets:
A) Lose a few pounds
B) Do interval training/including hill repeats
It's that simple. Power to weight ratio. More power/less weight = better climbing.
I'm training for an uphill TT in early May. 5.5 mile course, 1200' vertical gain. That's about a 25 minute ride for me I'd guess (the best 2/3's do it in 21 mins or so). I'm hoping for <25 mins and a placing in the 45+ category, but we'll see. I'm not a great climber, but I can tell you that after a couple of weeks of intervals and losing weight I'm feeling better going uphill already.
I do hill repeats on a 1.5 mile climb. 4x on Tuesday, that's about a 9-10 minute interval. The great thing about hill intervals is that it puts you into that LT (lactic threshhold) zone when you do them, if you're not putting out the watts on flat intervals, you might not get there. You DO get there on this hill. So that's about 40 mins. in the LT hurt locker on Tuesdays. I will be ramping that up to 6x (or about 60 mins. total in the zone) within a week or so.
As I lose weight my ability to stay seated on longer portions of climbs improves. That keeps my HR down. That helps me climb harder. Noticed that on this morning's ride already. Very cool feeling when that starts to happen.
My RHR (resting HR) was 46 this morning. If I can get my body weight down to <166 and my RHR to <42 I hope to be able to do well at that TT.
Again, I'm not a good climber by racer standards, but I do love it. And I'm looking forward to that TT, if only to get a quantifiable fitness test. It's a tremendous training motivator. Skipped the ice cream last night. I'm MUCH more afraid of that TT than I am of not eating so much over the next 6 weeks.
The best part about improving your climbing abilty? It generally makes ANY type of cycling less painful. But it does hurt to get there. Figure that one out.
Shhhh. Don't tell anyone. If this top secret info gets out it could be curtains for us all. Some of you might worry more about what you're eating for dinner tonight than whether you have a 25 or a 28 on your rear cluster. God forbid.
By the way this in no way means I shouldn't be driving you all crazy with my hankering for Zipp 404 tubular wheels. That's DIFFERENT than a compact crankset. I'm sure you understand.
Allow me to reveal the secrets:
A) Lose a few pounds
B) Do interval training/including hill repeats
It's that simple. Power to weight ratio. More power/less weight = better climbing.
I'm training for an uphill TT in early May. 5.5 mile course, 1200' vertical gain. That's about a 25 minute ride for me I'd guess (the best 2/3's do it in 21 mins or so). I'm hoping for <25 mins and a placing in the 45+ category, but we'll see. I'm not a great climber, but I can tell you that after a couple of weeks of intervals and losing weight I'm feeling better going uphill already.
I do hill repeats on a 1.5 mile climb. 4x on Tuesday, that's about a 9-10 minute interval. The great thing about hill intervals is that it puts you into that LT (lactic threshhold) zone when you do them, if you're not putting out the watts on flat intervals, you might not get there. You DO get there on this hill. So that's about 40 mins. in the LT hurt locker on Tuesdays. I will be ramping that up to 6x (or about 60 mins. total in the zone) within a week or so.
As I lose weight my ability to stay seated on longer portions of climbs improves. That keeps my HR down. That helps me climb harder. Noticed that on this morning's ride already. Very cool feeling when that starts to happen.
My RHR (resting HR) was 46 this morning. If I can get my body weight down to <166 and my RHR to <42 I hope to be able to do well at that TT.
Again, I'm not a good climber by racer standards, but I do love it. And I'm looking forward to that TT, if only to get a quantifiable fitness test. It's a tremendous training motivator. Skipped the ice cream last night. I'm MUCH more afraid of that TT than I am of not eating so much over the next 6 weeks.
The best part about improving your climbing abilty? It generally makes ANY type of cycling less painful. But it does hurt to get there. Figure that one out.
Shhhh. Don't tell anyone. If this top secret info gets out it could be curtains for us all. Some of you might worry more about what you're eating for dinner tonight than whether you have a 25 or a 28 on your rear cluster. God forbid.
By the way this in no way means I shouldn't be driving you all crazy with my hankering for Zipp 404 tubular wheels. That's DIFFERENT than a compact crankset. I'm sure you understand.
03-23-07, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
It is with continuous amusement that I read threads here about 'how can I climb better' replete with hand wringing and teeth gnashing over gear ratios, compact cranks, lighter bikes, etc.
Allow me to reveal the secrets:
A) Lose a few pounds
B) Do interval training/including hill repeats
It's that simple. Power to weight ratio. More power/less weight = better climbing.
I'm training for an uphill TT in early May. 5.5 mile course, 1200' vertical gain. That's about a 25 minute ride for me I'd guess (the best 2/3's do it in 21 mins or so). I'm hoping for <25 mins and a placing in the 45+ category, but we'll see. I'm not a great climber, but I can tell you that after a couple of weeks of intervals and losing weight I'm feeling better going uphill already.
I do hill repeats on a 1.5 mile climb. 4x on Tuesday, that's about a 9-10 minute interval. The great thing about hill intervals is that it puts you into that LT (lactic threshhold) zone when you do them, if you're not putting out the watts on flat intervals, you might not get there. You DO get there on this hill. So that's about 40 mins. in the LT hurt locker on Tuesdays. I will be ramping that up to 6x (or about 60 mins. total in the zone) within a week or so.
As I lose weight my ability to stay seated on longer portions of climbs improves. That keeps my HR down. That helps me climb harder. Noticed that on this morning's ride already. Very cool feeling when that starts to happen.
My RHR (resting HR) was 46 this morning. If I can get my body weight down to <166 and my RHR to <42 I hope to be able to do well at that TT.
Again, I'm not a good climber by racer standards, but I do love it. And I'm looking forward to that TT, if only to get a quantifiable fitness test. It's a tremendous training motivator. Skipped the ice cream last night. I'm MUCH more afraid of that TT than I am of not eating so much over the next 6 weeks.
The best part about improving your climbing abilty? It generally makes ANY type of cycling less painful. But it does hurt to get there. Figure that one out.
Shhhh. Don't tell anyone. If this top secret info gets out it could be curtains for us all. Some of you might worry more about what you're eating for dinner tonight than whether you have a 25 or a 28 on your rear cluster. God forbid.
By the way this in no way means I shouldn't be driving you all crazy with my hankering for Zipp 404 tubular wheels. That's DIFFERENT than a compact crankset. I'm sure you understand.
Allow me to reveal the secrets:
A) Lose a few pounds
B) Do interval training/including hill repeats
It's that simple. Power to weight ratio. More power/less weight = better climbing.
I'm training for an uphill TT in early May. 5.5 mile course, 1200' vertical gain. That's about a 25 minute ride for me I'd guess (the best 2/3's do it in 21 mins or so). I'm hoping for <25 mins and a placing in the 45+ category, but we'll see. I'm not a great climber, but I can tell you that after a couple of weeks of intervals and losing weight I'm feeling better going uphill already.
I do hill repeats on a 1.5 mile climb. 4x on Tuesday, that's about a 9-10 minute interval. The great thing about hill intervals is that it puts you into that LT (lactic threshhold) zone when you do them, if you're not putting out the watts on flat intervals, you might not get there. You DO get there on this hill. So that's about 40 mins. in the LT hurt locker on Tuesdays. I will be ramping that up to 6x (or about 60 mins. total in the zone) within a week or so.
As I lose weight my ability to stay seated on longer portions of climbs improves. That keeps my HR down. That helps me climb harder. Noticed that on this morning's ride already. Very cool feeling when that starts to happen.
My RHR (resting HR) was 46 this morning. If I can get my body weight down to <166 and my RHR to <42 I hope to be able to do well at that TT.
Again, I'm not a good climber by racer standards, but I do love it. And I'm looking forward to that TT, if only to get a quantifiable fitness test. It's a tremendous training motivator. Skipped the ice cream last night. I'm MUCH more afraid of that TT than I am of not eating so much over the next 6 weeks.
The best part about improving your climbing abilty? It generally makes ANY type of cycling less painful. But it does hurt to get there. Figure that one out.
Shhhh. Don't tell anyone. If this top secret info gets out it could be curtains for us all. Some of you might worry more about what you're eating for dinner tonight than whether you have a 25 or a 28 on your rear cluster. God forbid.
By the way this in no way means I shouldn't be driving you all crazy with my hankering for Zipp 404 tubular wheels. That's DIFFERENT than a compact crankset. I'm sure you understand.
correct.
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03-23-07, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
By the way this in no way means I shouldn't be driving you all crazy with my hankering for Zipp 404 tubular wheels. That's DIFFERENT than a compact crankset. I'm sure you understand.
You still haven't bought them? The insomnia is starting to get to me, p.
03-23-07, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
It is with continuous amusement that I read threads here about 'how can I climb better' replete with hand wringing and teeth gnashing over gear ratios, compact cranks, lighter bikes, etc.
Allow me to reveal the secrets:
A) Lose a few pounds
B) Do interval training/including hill repeats
It's that simple. Power to weight ratio. More power/less weight = better climbing.
Allow me to reveal the secrets:
A) Lose a few pounds
B) Do interval training/including hill repeats
It's that simple. Power to weight ratio. More power/less weight = better climbing.
Nonsense. Rubbish. Poppycock. Claptrap. Horsefeathers, sir. Good day to you, sir.
I said, "Good day."
03-23-07, 08:14 AM
#5
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Cromulent
So what you're saying is that if I lose weight, train, and apply myself to the training, I should get better? Like DocRay's super secret training tip - if I turn the pedals faster, I will go faster?
Nonsense. Rubbish. Poppycock. Claptrap. Horsefeathers, sir. Good day to you, sir.
I said, "Good day."
Nonsense. Rubbish. Poppycock. Claptrap. Horsefeathers, sir. Good day to you, sir.
I said, "Good day."
03-23-07, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Cromulent
So what you're saying is that if I lose weight, train, and apply myself to the training, I should get better? Like DocRay's super secret training tip - if I turn the pedals faster, I will go faster?
Nonsense. Rubbish. Poppycock. Claptrap. Horsefeathers, sir. Good day to you, sir.
I said, "Good day."
Nonsense. Rubbish. Poppycock. Claptrap. Horsefeathers, sir. Good day to you, sir.
I said, "Good day."
I wish there was some magic pill that would make me a better climber (other than heavey doping), but that's just not how it works.I'm curious about hill training. As of late, most of my climbs have come at the end of a fairly long ride. After approx. 50-60 miles under the belt I am suddenly sitting at 5000ish feet elevation, looking at 2 main hills that will get me back home up at 7350 feet. At that points it's a practice in sheer willpower to convince the body to stay in the middle ring and maintain a cadence of > 40 RPM. Over 10 miles, 2200 feet of climbing with a little over half of that being mostly flat, I average a HR of over 175 (LT is 168, so it HURTS!). Makes me wonder: Is it better to do hill intervals with fresh legs?
03-23-07, 08:19 AM
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so whatcha' want?
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Originally Posted by patentcad
A) Lose a few pounds
B) Do interval training/including hill repeats
03-23-07, 08:19 AM
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Pshaw - sounds like to loose weight, all I have to do is eat less and excercise more! If that was true, why are there so many diet books?!
Sorry, couldn't resist...
Sorry, couldn't resist...
03-23-07, 08:20 AM
#9
Throw the stick!!!!
What, are you trying to tell me that climbing more will actually make me a better climber? Also losing weight will help? I just can't believe it. There must be a more difficult explanation that involves me spending a lot of money.
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I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.
03-23-07, 08:23 AM
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so whatcha' want?
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... and the fastest hill climbers i know, jakey, gonesh, pedalmasher and fishmel all have this is common: short, steep hills in their locale that they ride up and down and up and down til they're almost puking in their training routines.
03-23-07, 08:24 AM
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I personally recommend the Botto body-rehabilitation plan, it's done wonders for me.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
03-23-07, 08:25 AM
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awesome avatar!
03-23-07, 08:28 AM
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Dang it patentcad! You're giving away the most closely guarded secret of all time!
The jig is up now.
The jig is up now.
03-23-07, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bigskymacadam
awesome avatar!
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
03-23-07, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Either that or get one of those nifty compact cranks and a 12-28 cassette. That seems to be the other theory of how to improve climbing espoused on BF : ).
Now I really need to go ride up some hills till I puke.
03-23-07, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Either that or get one of those nifty compact cranks and a 12-28 cassette. That seems to be the other theory of how to improve climbing espoused on BF : ).
coach: the best thing one can do to improve climbing is to lose weight.
me: did you just call me a fatty?
coach: of course not babe, i'm just sayin'.
me: you did just call me a fatty!
I also have a newfound love for hill repeats...it's the only option for me and my limited training time. I can get there without driving an hour for a sustained climb in the mountains. I'm also getting hooked on the mileage to elevation gain ratios. I know that many people don't like them, I'll admit that they're boring, but if they lead to me dropping the boys on the mountains eventually, then I'll be out there doing them.
03-23-07, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by chipcom
I personally recommend the Botto body-rehabilitation plan, it's done wonders for me.
[IMG]snip[/IMG]
[IMG]snip[/IMG]
03-23-07, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
A) Lose a few pounds
But I stand 5'9" and weight in at 127.5lbs which is 1.847lbs/inch. Even Pantani was heavier than I am compared to height 1.852lbs/inch. I WANT to GAIN 10.5 pounds but I feel like that is a lofty goal.
Originally Posted by patentcad
B) Do interval training/including hill repeats
03-23-07, 08:41 AM
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No! Not hard work! I won't hear of it. I need a special pill or a mechanism that does it for me. That is the American way.
03-23-07, 08:46 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Bantam
Incorrect.
But I stand 5'9" and weight in at 127.5lbs which is 1.847lbs/inch. Even Pantani was heavier than I am compared to height 1.852lbs/inch. I WANT to GAIN 10.5 pounds but I feel like that is a lofty goal.
Correct.
But I stand 5'9" and weight in at 127.5lbs which is 1.847lbs/inch. Even Pantani was heavier than I am compared to height 1.852lbs/inch. I WANT to GAIN 10.5 pounds but I feel like that is a lofty goal.
Correct.
On the other hand, this is the ONLY sport where such geeky proportions are coveted by others. So don't let it go to your underweight head. This is also the only sport where you can look in the mirror at your wimpy underweight ass and shake your head in the certain knowledge that you remain too fat for cycling. 99% of us are always too fat for cycling.
It is at times like this I PRAY to be blessed with a serious eating disorder like anorexia or bulemia. BRING IT ON baby. That is not my problem. Trust me. In the meantime if you need me (and I realize you do not) I will be riding my bike 300+ miles every week and eating next to nothing. *** me.
03-23-07, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Listen you little friggin pencil necked wimp, guys like you make me insane. Don't you understand that 99% of the people here would KILL to have your body type??
On the other hand, this is the ONLY sport where such geeky proportions are coveted by others. So don't let it go to your underweight head.
This is also the only sport where you can look in the mirror at your wimpy underweight ass and shake your head in the certain knowledge that you remain too fat for cycling. 99% of us are always too fat for cycling.
It is at times like this I PRAY to be blessed with a serious eating disorder like anorexia or bulemia. BRING IT ON baby. That is not my problem. Trust me.
On the other hand, this is the ONLY sport where such geeky proportions are coveted by others. So don't let it go to your underweight head.
This is also the only sport where you can look in the mirror at your wimpy underweight ass and shake your head in the certain knowledge that you remain too fat for cycling. 99% of us are always too fat for cycling.
It is at times like this I PRAY to be blessed with a serious eating disorder like anorexia or bulemia. BRING IT ON baby. That is not my problem. Trust me.
03-23-07, 09:13 AM
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I was serious.
03-23-07, 09:14 AM
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I see where you're coming from as I could also do with losing a few lbs, but trust me that anorexia or similar eating disorder is not something you want.
First it's not something you can just switch on and off, and second the difference between a bit of selective eating leading to some healthy weight loss and having an unhealthy psychological disorder is a fine one.
My experience of eating disorders is that it doesn't help you to win races, but it hamper ability to enjoy food over a lifetime, and is often passed on to your kids and their kids. That's the mild sort. The bad sort shuts down your body. Your body switches off non essentials and switches to survival mode starting with physical ability to do fun stuff like cycling and having sex. Later on it switches off ability to regulate temperature and your heart muscles get metabolised. Then you die.
My advice to Bantam is to understand that he's got the weight side of the power to weight equation sorted. His problem is probably on the power side, so perhaps some nutritional checks, weight training and various power intervals will help? He'll soon be flying uphill, but should also recognise that he will probably not be going under the hour for a 40k TT or winning flat field sprints any time soon.
First it's not something you can just switch on and off, and second the difference between a bit of selective eating leading to some healthy weight loss and having an unhealthy psychological disorder is a fine one.
My experience of eating disorders is that it doesn't help you to win races, but it hamper ability to enjoy food over a lifetime, and is often passed on to your kids and their kids. That's the mild sort. The bad sort shuts down your body. Your body switches off non essentials and switches to survival mode starting with physical ability to do fun stuff like cycling and having sex. Later on it switches off ability to regulate temperature and your heart muscles get metabolised. Then you die.
My advice to Bantam is to understand that he's got the weight side of the power to weight equation sorted. His problem is probably on the power side, so perhaps some nutritional checks, weight training and various power intervals will help? He'll soon be flying uphill, but should also recognise that he will probably not be going under the hour for a 40k TT or winning flat field sprints any time soon.