Portland:Red Light Camera Nabs 226 vehicles in First Day of Operation
10-25-07 | 02:39 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,696
Likes: 1
From: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Portland:Red Light Camera Nabs 226 vehicles in First Day of Operation
Portland, Oregon. The first-day practice run of a new red light camera at Southwest 4th and Jefferson last week caught 226 of 3,011 vehicles (that's 7.5%). It went online for real this morning for northbound traffic. The fine is $245.
https://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingn...owntown_p.html
https://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingn...owntown_p.html
10-25-07 | 02:47 PM
#2
genec
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 27,072
Likes: 4,533
From: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Portland, Oregon. The first-day practice run of a new red light camera at Southwest 4th and Jefferson last week caught 226 of 3,011 vehicles (that's 7.5%). It went online for real this morning for northbound traffic. The fine is $245.
https://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingn...owntown_p.html
https://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingn...owntown_p.html
10-25-07 | 02:54 PM
#4
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,788
Likes: 109
From: Long Island, New York
Bikes: a lowrider BMX, a mountain bike, a faired recumbent, and a loaded touring bike
Portland, Oregon. The first-day practice run of a new red light camera at Southwest 4th and Jefferson last week caught 226 of 3,011 vehicles (that's 7.5%). It went online for real this morning for northbound traffic. The fine is $245.
https://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingn...owntown_p.html
https://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingn...owntown_p.html
You don't suppose, that a bicyclist might by chance know in advance that 7.5% of cars run the red lights?
I have heard a lot of complaints lately that bicycles run red lights.
But if one is driving a bicycle and he/she stops for a red light, wouldn't the chance of getting hit from behind by a car be about 7.5%? With 7.5% of motorists running the red light?
I can look left and right, but the car behind me is in my "blind spot".
10-25-07 | 03:04 PM
#5
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 675
Likes: 0
That's funny as heck. Will people still insist that motorists always obey the rules? Most drivers speed most of the time, run reds while trying to 'squeeze a lemon,' roll stops, and fail to signal properly.
I wonder how many were going through right after the light changed to red and how many just stopped, checked around, and blatantly ran the red.
I wonder how many were going through right after the light changed to red and how many just stopped, checked around, and blatantly ran the red.
10-25-07 | 03:31 PM
#6
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
So you guys actually think that as many cars as bikes run stop signs and lights?
I cant remember ever seeing a motorists pull up to a red light, look around and then gun it through. I dont think I have ever seen that in my life. I see it everyday with bikers.
I cant remember ever seeing a motorists pull up to a red light, look around and then gun it through. I dont think I have ever seen that in my life. I see it everyday with bikers.
10-25-07 | 03:40 PM
#7
genec
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 27,072
Likes: 4,533
From: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
And I certainly have seen motorists treat stop signs just like some cyclists treat 'em.
10-25-07 | 03:42 PM
#8
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
I have never seen a cyclists that was not with me stop at a stop sign.
I would guess that out of 100 bicyclists approaching a stop sign 99 would run it if noone was around.
10-25-07 | 03:45 PM
#9
genec
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 27,072
Likes: 4,533
From: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
and if no one was around how would you know?
10-25-07 | 03:53 PM
#10
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
ha ha
I guess thats true.
And somewhere there is a motorists who never stops at stop signs, drives at night without their lights and approaches right lights, looks both ways and then guns it.
The difference is that those drivers would not have their licenses for long because motorists are pulled over and ticketed and cyclists can usually do about anything without any fear of law enforcement.
I guess thats true.
And somewhere there is a motorists who never stops at stop signs, drives at night without their lights and approaches right lights, looks both ways and then guns it.
The difference is that those drivers would not have their licenses for long because motorists are pulled over and ticketed and cyclists can usually do about anything without any fear of law enforcement.
10-25-07 | 03:55 PM
#11
genec
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 27,072
Likes: 4,533
From: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
In Idaho cyclists can legally treat stop signs as yield signs.
Originally Posted by Idaho law
MOTOR VEHICLES
CHAPTER 7
PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLES
49-720. STOPPING -- TURN AND STOP SIGNALS. (1) A person operating a
bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a stop sign shall slow down and,
if required for safety, stop before entering the intersection. After slowing
to a reasonable speed or stopping, the person shall yield the right-of-way to
any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another highway so closely
as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the person is moving
across or within the intersection or junction of highways, except that a
person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if
required, may cautiously make a turn or proceed through the intersection
without stopping.
(2) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a
steady red traffic control light shall stop before entering the intersection
and shall yield to all other traffic. Once the person has yielded, he may
proceed through the steady red light with caution. Provided however, that a
person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if
required, may cautiously make a right-hand turn. A left-hand turn onto a
one-way highway may be made on a red light after stopping and yielding to
other traffic.
(3) A person riding a bicycle shall comply with the provisions of section
49-643, Idaho Code.
(4) A signal of intention to turn right or left shall be given during not
less than the last one hundred (100) feet traveled by the bicycle before
turning, provided that a signal by hand and arm need not be given if the hand
is needed in the control or operation of the bicycle.
CHAPTER 7
PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLES
49-720. STOPPING -- TURN AND STOP SIGNALS. (1) A person operating a
bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a stop sign shall slow down and,
if required for safety, stop before entering the intersection. After slowing
to a reasonable speed or stopping, the person shall yield the right-of-way to
any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another highway so closely
as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the person is moving
across or within the intersection or junction of highways, except that a
person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if
required, may cautiously make a turn or proceed through the intersection
without stopping.
(2) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a
steady red traffic control light shall stop before entering the intersection
and shall yield to all other traffic. Once the person has yielded, he may
proceed through the steady red light with caution. Provided however, that a
person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if
required, may cautiously make a right-hand turn. A left-hand turn onto a
one-way highway may be made on a red light after stopping and yielding to
other traffic.
(3) A person riding a bicycle shall comply with the provisions of section
49-643, Idaho Code.
(4) A signal of intention to turn right or left shall be given during not
less than the last one hundred (100) feet traveled by the bicycle before
turning, provided that a signal by hand and arm need not be given if the hand
is needed in the control or operation of the bicycle.
10-25-07 | 03:59 PM
#12
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 675
Likes: 0
My point is that people in cars break rules all day long, but the drivers excuse their own bad behavior. When the see a guy on a bike breaking a different rule, they can't see it for what it is. They think that the rule that the cyclist broke was very important, but it was somehow OK that the driver was tailgating, speeding, failing to signal, or just driving like a moron.
I'm guessing that the vast majority of those caught on the camera were trying to make the yellow, and didn't make it. That doesn't change the fact that they ran the red. Nearly 10%. The article didn't specify whether that was 7.5% of all cars going through or just of the cars that got to the intersection when it was red.
I wonder what the number would be if it was percent of cars that had a choice (that is, the light was red, and no one was in front of them blocking the way.).
I'm guessing that the vast majority of those caught on the camera were trying to make the yellow, and didn't make it. That doesn't change the fact that they ran the red. Nearly 10%. The article didn't specify whether that was 7.5% of all cars going through or just of the cars that got to the intersection when it was red.
I wonder what the number would be if it was percent of cars that had a choice (that is, the light was red, and no one was in front of them blocking the way.).
10-25-07 | 04:03 PM
#13
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Lets just use our imaginations for a minute.
I hope you can open your eyes for a while to see the truth.
If you hide in a bush in a local 4-way stop and watched 100 cyclists throughout the day how many of those cyclists would come to a complete stop (not in ohio Im tired of hearing that)?
I would say that maybe 1 would in my town. I will wait for your reply to that question.
I hope you can open your eyes for a while to see the truth.
If you hide in a bush in a local 4-way stop and watched 100 cyclists throughout the day how many of those cyclists would come to a complete stop (not in ohio Im tired of hearing that)?
I would say that maybe 1 would in my town. I will wait for your reply to that question.
10-25-07 | 04:12 PM
#14
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,063
Likes: 1
From: Toronto
You'd have to wait a few days to get a hundred cyclists around here, but I don't think any of them would come to a complete stop if no opposing traffic was present.
I think roughly zero percent of other road users would stop too. In the last year, I have never seen a car come to a complete stop at a stop sign without opposing traffic present. Zero.
Your town may be different, I suppose, I'll take your word for it.
I think roughly zero percent of other road users would stop too. In the last year, I have never seen a car come to a complete stop at a stop sign without opposing traffic present. Zero.
Your town may be different, I suppose, I'll take your word for it.
10-25-07 | 04:14 PM
#15
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
You'd have to wait a few days to get a hundred cyclists around here, but I don't think any of them would come to a complete stop if no opposing traffic was present.
I think roughly zero percent of other road users would stop too. In the last year, I have never seen a car come to a complete stop at a stop sign without opposing traffic present. Zero.
Your town may be different, I suppose, I'll take your word for it.
I think roughly zero percent of other road users would stop too. In the last year, I have never seen a car come to a complete stop at a stop sign without opposing traffic present. Zero.
Your town may be different, I suppose, I'll take your word for it.
So answer me that and then we can continue here
10-25-07 | 04:25 PM
#16
Arizona Dessert
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,029
Likes: 2,170
From: AZ
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
"In [Arizona in] 2005, over 8,349 crashes which killed 80 people and injured over 7,494 were caused when a driver disregarded a red light or stop sign. "
That reflects a death rate that is higher by nearly 2x relative to any other state.
Al
That reflects a death rate that is higher by nearly 2x relative to any other state.
Al
10-25-07 | 04:31 PM
#18
There, it's more like 80-85% of cyclists who run red lights. But let's wag our fingers at those 7.5% of motorists who do the same. That's TRUE cycling advocacy-- US AGAINST THEM!
10-25-07 | 04:36 PM
#19
Non-Custom Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,613
Likes: 0
From: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: 1975-1980 SR road bike
I would guess that out of 100 bicyclists approaching a stop sign 99 would run it if no one was around.
Recklessly flying through stop signs and red lights is one thing, but there is no safety-related reason for a cyclist to come to a complete stop at a stop sign if it is clear there is no other traffic present. Unlike a car, a bicycle has much greater visibility (significantly reducing the chance of a cyclist not seeing another party) and maneuverability (if the cyclist does overlook someone, they have much greater chance of avoiding a collision inside the intersection) and much lower mass (in case of collision, would cause much less damage.)
10-25-07 | 04:36 PM
#20
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
ha ha
How would a 500 dollar ticket and a 2 month campaign work? It would be good for cyling and the city could probably build a new school or something!!!
10-25-07 | 04:39 PM
#21
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
I would venture to say that, in those circumstances, bicyclist number 100 is a dork.
Recklessly flying through stop signs and red lights is one thing, but there is no safety-related reason for a cyclist to come to a complete stop at a stop sign if it is clear there is no other traffic present. Unlike a car, a bicycle has much greater visibility (significantly reducing the chance of a cyclist not seeing another party) and maneuverability (if the cyclist does overlook someone, they have much greater chance of avoiding a collision inside the intersection) and much lower mass (in case of collision, would cause much less damage.)
Recklessly flying through stop signs and red lights is one thing, but there is no safety-related reason for a cyclist to come to a complete stop at a stop sign if it is clear there is no other traffic present. Unlike a car, a bicycle has much greater visibility (significantly reducing the chance of a cyclist not seeing another party) and maneuverability (if the cyclist does overlook someone, they have much greater chance of avoiding a collision inside the intersection) and much lower mass (in case of collision, would cause much less damage.)
I suppose lights make you a dork too, right?
10-25-07 | 04:53 PM
#22
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,696
Likes: 1
From: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Lets just use our imaginations for a minute.
I hope you can open your eyes for a while to see the truth.
If you hide in a bush in a local 4-way stop and watched 100 cyclists throughout the day how many of those cyclists would come to a complete stop (not in ohio Im tired of hearing that)?
I would say that maybe 1 would in my town. I will wait for your reply to that question.
I hope you can open your eyes for a while to see the truth.
If you hide in a bush in a local 4-way stop and watched 100 cyclists throughout the day how many of those cyclists would come to a complete stop (not in ohio Im tired of hearing that)?
I would say that maybe 1 would in my town. I will wait for your reply to that question.
10-25-07 | 04:54 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,696
Likes: 1
From: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
10-25-07 | 04:55 PM
#24
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,696
Likes: 1
From: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
I seriously doubt it, most cyclists I see in downtown Portland wait for the lights
10-25-07 | 04:57 PM
#25
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
ha ha
My point is that around here virtually all the cars stop or get to within 1-2 mph of stopping and most bicyclists do not even stop pedalling.
Hardly the same thing.
Someone driving 31 in a 30 mph zone is technically speeding but its not as noticable as someone going 60 mph in a 30 zone.