As some of you know, I've been testing the Level Components fixed gear hub for a while now. One concern I've heard on this board and elsewhere was since the cogs are proprietary people were worried about the company going out of business and there not being a source of cogs. I brought this up with Scott at Level and here's what he said:

"I have been beating down as many doors as i can with respect to this issue. The worst case scenario would be if I do go out of business I would give an independent cog manufacturer the specs for the cogs and they (the consumer) would have a viable source for spares. Best case is that all the manufacturers I have talked with accept what I am doing and start producing cogs."

Thumbnail review of the hub: Two thumbs up. Full detailed review in the next issue of SSO.

It certainly makes a lot of sense to lose the cog threads and lockring, but it makes me wonder why this was not done a long time ago by others?

Is it because of weight concerns? I mean, wouldn't a hub that accepts screws like that have to be solid where the screws go in? Or are there manufacturing issues that are no longer a problem now that everything is CNC?

Why not sooner? Maybe complacency, may hub manufacturers not wanting to produce their own cogs. Could be other reasons. Yes, the hub will be a bit beefier in the spot where the bolts go (like a disc hub), but we are talking about aluminum and non-rotational weight. Not a big deal in my opinion. When it makes sense, I prefer function over saving a few grams, but not everyone feels that way.

if i see widespead availability, i'm all over it.

When I get a track frame to build up, I'm building my rear wheel with a Level hub. It's the kind of solution that just makes too much sense to me.

Why did it take so long for someone to do this? Who knows. Why did it take people so long to put functionally useful wheels on luggage? Sometimes there's just not a good explanation.

Now, this may have been covered in another thread on this topic, but...

Is there any appreciable difference in function between the Level and a re-purposed front disc hub w/ drilled cog?

I remember seeing something about the three shear tabs on the Level keeping all shear forces off the bolts... but is this really the case? If so, does it really matter? Disc brakes have gotten along dandy with five or six bolts sharing the load, and I would imagine a cog would be a similar situation.

Front disc hub + new axle + spacers + drilled cog still seems to come out much less $$ than the Level.

Less money yes.

Slightly ghetto-rigged, yes.

However, the price I think, reflects demand and availability. If it's just a person or two putting out high quality hubs like these on their own, then it makes sense. It doesn't seem too unreasonable either - a Dura Ace/Superbe/Paul hub is about the same price.

It's evolution. And evolution tends to come at a price, at least in the beginning.

Well, the shear tabs you mentioned are one. Flip-flop is another. Cogs for the disc set up are only available from Boone (in Titantium). You could drill yourself, but you better be good. Front hubs are made for a smaller spacing meaning more axle will be hangin off each end, more chance to bend. Chainline: the Level can be adjusted by flipping the assymetrical cog. Those are the ones I can think of.

I know people who are running the Boone cog on a rear disc hub. Not sure if the front disc hub will produce the same chainline. And I'm not sure what the chainline is for the rear, so you might need to play with things up front (chainrings).

What is the current cost? Inkdwheels had discussed these with me for my future build. My current short list:

Pual.
Surly.
Velocity.

Cost is a second factor next to durabilty with performance a close to second.

Yep and they cost $42. I tried this setup with a front hub. Its a hassle. But if you have a mtb and you can just flip it over. More power to ya.

I think the level hubs are $150 rear $100 front. Down from $220 rear.

WTF is Pual???? Lay off the bottle, will.

Paul! https://www.paulcomp.com/

No, WK had it right, he's talking about Pual Component Engineering

of course! my friend raul works there. or is it rual...

Thanks for the responses on the disc hub. It seems simple in concept, but as mentioned, it sounds like a bear once you consider chainline, cogs, axles... all that crap. I'll definitely consider a Level once my Suzue Jr. gives out.

Shaaa.. As if...

If only...

I could use an ice cold something right now.

Brennavin. Yes.. Brennavin

To ressurect a dead thread...I just picked Level over Phil & Paul. Should finally have my flip flop fixed-fixed on the road in a couple weeks.

The design is innovative. The price is competitive with Phil. I don't need an 1/8 chain whip now.

That headwind on the way home won't make me curse being overgeared anymore. I'm excited about that.

I visited the LeVel site.
What a great idea.
I don't understand all the dimensions and options, but I understand the basic concept.
It seems obvious now that someone has done it.

Hey Folks!
I have been riding Level Hubs for some time now and I have had no issues at all with them. They may weigh a little more than some other hubs, but its not significant enough to make it the least bit undesirable.

I actually started selling Level Hubs in Canada and have kept in touch with Scott at Level to find out what's new. Here is some info that not all of you may know.

-They are experimenting with coloured anodizing (and black). These are not for sale yet, but they are trying to see how they turn out.

-They are working on refining their BOLT ON freewheel. Once they have this done, their freewheel will bolt on, just like the cogs.

-They are working on finishing up their disc rotor mount which will also BOLT onto the Hub like the Cogs do.

Anyways, there isn't a huge buzz on these in Canada yet, but I am hoping that it catches on soon. I love these hubs!

Anybody else care to add some feedback? I'm also looking into some rear hub options...
thanks.

Hi Folks...

I think I mentioned this before but I'm going to be spending a month working with Scott Hansen (of level) in Fiji-ish starting in about 3 weeks. If you have any questions/suggestions that others have not been able to answer, post them here and I'll pass them on to him. ....and sorry, no, I won't ask him for free samples ;-(

Take care...

Jim

Have fun Jimy!!! Scott told me about his "time on a ship!"

If anyone has any questions while Scott is away, feel free to give me a shout also. I have been working with Scott and selling his hubs here in Canada for some time and I can do my best to answer any questions. I have plenty of stock of the hubs and cogs as well.

Cheers

the level hub is an awesome idea and i have heard nothing but good reports, i really wish the company success and would love to try one of their hubs someday. i just recenetly bought a new hub, and there are a few reasons i didn't pick one up just yet...

when i bought a phil over level, its because i know that the phil is going to be spinning smooth for years. maybe the level hubs are built to compete with the top hub manufacturers, time will tell. lets not forget the chub hub and how bombproof that turned out to be... everybody bought into those things, the kids at reload were selling them... and now a year or two later, everybody realizes what crap they were.

i dont want to put level and chubhub in the same category, but i think its important to be skeptical with newer products.

maybe its just me, but i dont think its a real hassle using a chainwhip and lock ring, and have never had a cog slip on me. i rarely change gearing, but i already own all the cogs i need and dont want to invest in new ones on top of the price of the hub.

just a few things to think about.

Of course you take a chance whenever you invest in a new product.

Cogs usually give you a high return on ebay...

I'll be doing my first ride on the Level wheel tomorrow. I'll let you know what I think.