I think this is a solution for all. Eliminate the middleman.

I was searching for "fixed gear fatty" (as in fat tire not fat belly) & got this https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...90c1b22bff.jpg

promising a bamboo framed aluminium fixed gear fat tire ebike with gears... all the bike you could ever want. But anyway, it got me on alibaba, which is clearly the source for many fine brands such as Rapidcycles featured in another thread.

Great window shopping. Highly recommended.

[end pointless post here]

edit - url error, suggestion for posting excellent alibaba finds

This one is pretty hot, the grips are amazingly huge.

https://g03.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1iW7aI...mboo-frame.jpg

600$ tho

I found a bamboo townie. (I didn't know where you were going with this, though I am actually having fun playing around in Alibaba.)

ha, thx for playing, used to be a fun game to browse alibaba for crazy ****e, did it on a non bike related forum, but back then it didn't seem to be a problem to link to them, the bastads. You would think they would want people to link, maybe the percentage of people laughing or pointing out copyright & trademark violations was higher than interested buyers

your bamboo find is much prettier than mine tho

Aluminum tubes covered in bamboo, or full bamboo?

Just bamboo usually, although by the time a frame is made it is more resin & wrapped fiber than bamboo stalk, and a hefty coating of polyurethane. And they still won't take heavy/hard city riding for long.

Nice post keep it up!

Thanks for this post\

How does one get access to alibaba I wanted to look at Mini Velos as most cost too dam much on line.

Aliexpress is the non bulk order version. I use it all the time.

The shill is strong with this one.

When bikes are made in China, you can cut out the middleman markups by buying an unbranded bike straight from the factory.

Before we have this stupid argument again, here's a 73 page treatise on the topic.

This is great

Thanks for sharing!

Good point. If you bought an unbranded genuine frame, it might be worth the savings. The problem as the article points out is there are plenty of fakes and consumers don't know how to tell them apart. And the fakes tend to be cheaper and of lower quality than an authentic original. Not a stupid argument at all.

Its more of a problem though with counterfeit fake luxury goods (not just high-end bikes) that are nowhere near the quality and reputation of the real luxury good. Caveat emptor is necessary and if the price sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Consumers want to save money but not at the expense of quality and durability and there many more fake merchants than real ones and on Chinese e-commerce sites like Alibaba, its hard to really know what you're getting for the money. Cutting out the middleman is good in theory but only if you know its the real deal you're buying. Otherwise, its not worth it.

So you didn't read it? At the low end, you're mostly right, there are a lot of people selling the same generic frames with different paint and decals. At the higher end, though, Cervelo, or Argon 18, or Pinarello aren't buying generic frames and slapping their logos on them. they're doing real, expensive R&D and producing specific designs, on which they certainly hold patents and, where relevant, copyrights. When you buy one of those frames without the "middle man" you're buying something that is either an unlicensed copy produced in a different factory, guaranteed only to look like the real thing, or you're buying something that the real factory made off the books to sell "grey" market, neither of which are necessarily legal for them to sell, or you to buy.

There's not necessarily anything wrong with buying a generic steel or aluminium (or Titanium!) frame, or open mold carbon frame that is advertised and sold as such. As long as you're aware of the implications regarding quality control, fit, and finish, and whatever return or refund policies go with it. There's definitely something wrong with knowingly buying counterfeit goods, though. (*)

And the problem with counterfeiting is quality, and not the counterfeiting itself?

As above, your problem is with quality and not the fact that they may be selling you something that's illegal for them to sell and illegal for you to buy?





*) Side note, I work in IT. I have a degree in Computer Science and Engineering. I also firmly believe we need serious IP law reform in the U.S. I'm not trying to shill for "the system" here. I still try to follow the laws as they exist today.

My problem is with counterfeiting, which is illegal.

The point I made was its very difficult for consumers to tell legal grey market products apart from counterfeit products.

If there was some assurance program, you could know what you buy. In the wild west of the online market place, you don't know exactly what you'll get.

And I'm not one of those people who says counterfeited goods are ok. They aren't.

I would never descend at 80kmph on something I got off the Aliexpress. Producers should sell directly to customer -- something Canyon is going to do in US soon. I wonder how that is going to work out.

Thanks for all to keep us updated..