Can I get some solid info on the Leader 725?
 

Ok, I've been doing research for 2 days, searching this forum like mad and all over the web.

I just sold my Aventon Cordoba frame, and I just ordered a Leader 725 "Classic" (integrated seat clamp, not the new split/finned/double bolt) directly from their site, they were 30% off until the 3rd, making it a great bargain. Now, I've read all about the seat clamp issue, but I've also read that the seat clamp has to be conditioned before you actually install your post, which makes perfect sense.

I was REALLY going back and forth between the 725 and the Aventon Mataro, but I couldn't find Mataro frames anywhere that were in stock in either the color or the size I wanted. And I'm very picky about color, it's half the reason I sold the Cordoba, because I didn't like the color when I saw it in person at all.

I'm happy with my purchase and can't wait to get it, but I want to know is, is all of the bad press on Leader legitimate? Or is this a case of people only posting all their bad reviews all over the place, and no one posting positive ones? I'm well aware that this isn't a high-end track frame, which isn't what I want, anyway, I want something fun for riding around on. When I have found good reviews, they're people singing about them and talking about how much they like the frame. Yet all the negative ones seem to be about the same couple of things.

So does anyone have some good reviews of the 725?

I had a Leader 725. I hated it. The seatpost clamp was junk, and failed under very little torque. The frame flexed like a wet noodle. The screws holding in the steel dropout inserts were too long and made it difficult to get the wheel positioned correctly. The geometry felt all weird. The paint job was crap and there was a ton of paint caked on the threads of the bottom bracket shell. And the frame weighed slightly less than a Sherman tank. Then again, it cost me like $300. I guess I got what I paid for.

Oops. Sorry. You were looking for a positive review. Oh well...

What does this even mean?

Apparently, you're supposed to tighten and loosen the seat clamp a few times without the post installed before you actually mount the seat post and ride it.

Back when Scrod worked with Leader he would say you need to tighten the seat post binder down without a seat tube in it to condition it.

I got my Leader for half price and even then, I overpaid. Only reason I haven't discarded mine is my crabon tarck fork won't fit any other bike.

I can't believe you can't find any hipsters in Portlandia to buy it.

Its seat post is ruined and I have it attached in a manner that I couldn't sell it with a clean concious. My only option is to throw it away or keep riding it.

Yup, that's it.

Back in the old days of integrated seatpost clamps, if this wasn't done, the integrated seatpost clamp wasn't able to conform properly to the seatpost.
Resultingly, a seatpost would keep slipping, causing the user to hamfist tighten it and strip out the aluminum threads of the seatpost binder that was built right into the characteristic aero downtubes.

Long story short, you don't want one.

Cancel the order and tell them I told you to, just for laughs. YOU DO NOT WANT A LEADER 725.

Don't do it. It took me over a year of arguing with Leader and sending malformed frames back and forth from Kansas to San Diego for me to realize that if it was this hard to get a good one I probably didn't want to be riding one anyways.

Don't be as stupid as I was.

I can't even cancel the ****ing order, they're not answering phones, responding to emails/tweets/FB messages. Fantastic.

Well, I finally got a hold of someone, but my order might have already shipped.

I guarantee it hasn't and they're just telling you that as not to lose a sale. :lol:

Refuse the package when it arrives and tell them you want a refund.

So I have I actually contacted quality control and design at Leader and learned that nearly all their frame problems were a bad batches of frames from specific production runs. If you know anything about manufacturing and mass-production (and I do, I work at Leatherman), you know things like this are unavoidable. You can't inspect every product that comes off a production line, you check a few in a batch. Bad ones are GOING to get through. And if something goes wrong with either the materials or a step in the process,you get a run of product with similar failures in one area. This is what happened at Leader. I work in manufacturing, I know how the process works.

Long story short, I maintained my purchase of the 725 frame. For the price ($310 for the frame, i803 carbon fork, and FSA headset, all 30% off over the new year weekend) I couldn't pass it up. I've been in direct contact with one of their customer service people, and have followed all of his recommendations so far with assembly, torque specs, etc. I have assurances that there should be no problems with my frame, and the lifetime warranty is in place. I'm optimistic that it will be fine, and if there's an issue, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I'm a casual/frequent street and city rider, not a professional racer or bike messenger.

You may know a thing or two about manufacturing and the way it's supposed to be done but you know very little about Leader's complete lack of quality control.

Best of luck to you.

This may be true, but there's only one way to find out. Don't think I don't appreciate your advice, because I very much do, that's why I started the thread, was looking for opinions on the matter. I'm sure I probably came off as the guy who ask everyone what he should do, and then does the opposite, but in the end, I don't really have all that much to lose. I'll be sure to post updates as they are relevant.

OP, you sound like my ex who would constantly buy stuff first and then ask me to validate her uninformed decisions. I haven't spoken with her for years.

That's very interesting. Except I asked the internet first, and then asked 2 different departments in the company directly. So we'll see how it turns out. Regardless, it's a much easier break-up if the relationship goes south. But thanks for the example.

Why didn't somebody just say no???

I have a 725 "classic" and I never had a problem with the seatpost.

I did have a previous Leader frame I had to warranty because the rear triangle showed up slightly crooked.

I think they are roughly of the same quality as other cheap aluminum like Aventon, Unknown, etc.

Generally if you here of a company that has repeated frame issues you don't go out and buy from them no matter what they might say. Unless they can prove it is a past issue and they have resolved it and you can find outside the company data for that you should stay away.

I have never heard of "conditioning" a seatpost or collar, I work in bike shop and have put together a bunch of bikes and worked with folks who have put together many many many many more and I don't think anyone has conditioned a seatpost. If you have to do something like that there is something wrong. A new bike should need to be put together to the proper torque specs with the proper grease or lubricant or paste and tuned up as needed but it shouldn't need "conditioning".

I wish you luck with your bike and would certainly do as Scrod said (especially since he dealt in Leaders for a while). All the people I have known with Leaders no longer have Leaders because of broken frames or QC issues elsewhere.

If Leader happens to read this they should change their slogan to: "Buy it for looks, headaches for life!"

Two different "departments", huh? :lol:

So you know, there are only two people who currently work at Leader. Sal (the owner) and Bobby. Everyone else quit.

Leader actively recommended that and used that verbage for their dealers and online FAQ.

The company who decided it was a genius idea to literally integrate a seatpost collar, threading and all, right into the soft aluminum of the frame itself without any reinforcement or replacement recourse whatsoever.
Want a leader style integrated seatpost clamp? All you literally need is a drill with drill bit, bolt, and a tap. Nothing to it. Oh, just remember to condition it though.

http://the5thfloor.cc/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/31.jpg

The same year bianchi stopped making frames (the pista concept) with this type of silly seatpost collar was the year leader started. :rolleyes:

At least Leader took 4 years to kick the habit as opposed to bianchi's 5.

Has anyone ever tried using a steel seat post clamp in place of the aluminum clamp on the 725 frames?

Andja you're a bit confused. The seatpost clamps that everybody is referring to are *integrated* and built into the frame itself, which prevents it from being ever swapped out.

It is no longer an issue with leader 725's from '12 until '15 that is with the 2015 725.