I predict we will see the following hub as I have described it, within two years.

I see a cog, hub, chain tug and axle nut interface somewhat along the lines of Miche and Level, and which would not require tools to change the cog.
In other words, a person could remove the rear wheel and change a cog using the naked hand alone.

First, make a Level type aluminum hub but with lockring threads outboard of the dogs.
Secondly, put a Miche/Level type cog on the dogs.
Third, put a hand-tightened, knurled lock ring on the hub, outboard of the cog, that does not keep the cog from backing off but which only keeps the cog from wiggling sideways or falling off of the dogs.
Think about that for a second.

The Level system requires an allen wrench to change cogs.
The Miche system requires a lockring wrench to remove the lockring, because the lockring also locks the adapter onto the hub.
The system I describe would require no tool to change the cog, because the lock ring does not keep the cog from backing off but only keeps the cog from slipping sideways off of the dogs.

For those not familiar with the word dogs in this context, or who do not know how the Level system works, go here for a picture that will explain it:
https://www.levelcomponents.com/dev.html

For a look at the Miche system, go here:
https://www.businesscycles.com/tcog-miche.htm

Simply combine the two systems so that the lockring no longer keeps the adpater or cog from backing off, but only keeps the cog from moving sideways on the dogs of the hub.
This makes the knurled lockring tightenable and removeable by hand, without tools; and thus, the cog removeable without tools.

Now, imagine a longer axle with two diameters of counter threads, as we presently see two sets of threads on hubs.
On each end of the axle put a large, knurled, hand-thightened, primary axle nut on the first set of threads; and outboard of the axle nut, a slightly larger knurled, hand-tightened locking nut, counter-threaded to lock the primary axle nut.

I see the knurled primary axle nut as perhaps a half inch thick and an inch and a half in diameter.
I see the locknut as 3/8's of an inch thick and one and 5/8's inch in diameter.
The different thickness would provide visual and tactile identification of the locknut as the reversed-threaded nut, and the larger diameter of the locknut would make it easier to grip and put hand torque on the locknut when installed next to the primary axle nut.

Obviously, hand-tightened axle nuts and locknuts would not adequately hold the axle in place.
Therefore, this system would require a pair of chain-tensioners, like the MKS chain-tensioners, but with a large, knurled adjustment nut, perhaps 3/4's of an inch in diameter.
Want a locknut on the chain-tensioner adjustment nut?
OK.

With the hub system above, a rider could fix a flat or change a cog without any hand tools, other than tire levers.
This would also make changing a cog so easy one would not need to carry another cog on the other side of the hub, thus keeping bike weight and hub complexity down, not to mention reduced tool weight.
One would only need to carry an alternate cog in his bag.

Don't like the hand-thightened axle nuts?
OK.
Stick with conventional axle nuts and carry a 15mm wrench.
The rider can still change the cog without any tools other than the 15mm wrench he or she would have needed anyway, to fix a front flat.
Unless, of course, someone makes a new front axle with the same knurled primary nut and locknut system as on the rear axle.

If you were interested in making proprietary cogs as well, another option is to model the setup on the Miche system - a splined cog fitting on and then a threaded lockring just to keep it in place laterally.
Or hey, make a hub with a short splined section that you could slip a standard splined sprocket onto, and then also hane the threaded lockring section just outside of it. That way you do not have to manufacture the cogs (sprockets) or any other parts, you get the advantage of the relatively easy swap, and its one less threaded interface than the Miche (in reference to the adapter/hub).

Put together a flip-flop hub that's fixed/coaster-brake, and I'll buy. Make that quality coaster-brake.

peolple laughed at me when i suggested this months ago

to make it even better, make the splined section wider than a standard cog. Add standard cassette spacers, and you've got infinietly adjustable chainline.

yeah- I would like to see a fixed hub which was compatable with ss style cogs, with some kind of bolt-on, rather than thread on lockring retainer. Make it wide enough to fit one of the wide-base king style cogs, and still retain some chainline adjustment.

Then there would be no worries re: cog availability as with the level hub.

fatbat.

Actually LEVEL is working on something like that. They are working with their prototype now. They have a SS freewheel that slides over the hub, just like their Fixed cogs, and bolt on with the same torx screws.

They are just re-working the engineering of the freewheel right now according to Scott from Level, in order to make it affordable.

I think you could just use a regular shimano cassette lockring.
since the splines are keeping the cog from spinning off, the lockring is only holding the cog and spacers on laterally.

however, will an aluminum spline system hold up to the forces of skidding a thick steel cog?

I'm tellin ya. Make some cool Track tools! I'll be your first customer!

Even though there are myriad considerations when designing an AL hubshell, that's really only the beginning. The nuts and bolts of the issue are with the, dare I say, NUTS & BOLTS! Good hub design is a matter of engineering; and working out the bugs of bearing placement, freehub pawl/ratchet engagement options and other issues are what make and/or break a hub design. Just having access to CAD CNC machines doesn't do the groundwork for you. Do you have a background in or a team of engineers to back you up?
You need to find a niche and decide which shortcomings of other brands you're trying to overcome. Unfortunately you'll be competing with companies like Phil and King who've been at it for several decades. But I wish you luck!

How about something like the nashbar hub



Instead of a freewheel just have the splines for BMX cogs. Just have this on both sides for flip/flop ablility.

been done. chub hub, anyone?

None for me, thanks, I like gear that works.

Baxtefer wrote:

"...make the splined section wider than a standard cog. Add standard cassette spacers, and you've got infinietly adjustable chainline."

I like that idea.

No, there are 135mm fixed hubs out there for very little green. The reason to use a disc hub is because offroad abuse strips track hubs. That's why the Level hub was created.

Yes. We have a great staff, I wouldn't be programming the specs, but I'd work in tandem with our lead engineer, Don. He's been in the business for over 30 years. And like you're saying, the majority of my concern is the hubshell main body for now. We will not be producing the nuts and bolts, of coarse, and we will have to look into bearings and freewheel components if we were going to move ahead with that. I'd like to keep the process as simple as possible for now, so the first few designs WILL be run of the mill threaded fixed. I really like the idea of creating a vintage looking high flange design, along the lines of retro Campagnolo. The really high flange design also might be cool, with some sort of design cut into the flange. I'm going to really dive into finding older designs tonight and tomorrow and do a good amount of research into vintage hub culture. If any you guys find a picture of an older, rare hub, throw a picture up and I'll take a look. I don't plan on reproducing an exact idea, but I'd be nice to work off something. Thanks.

Bingo! Hubshells are not CNC rocket science. It's everything else that really matters.

What kind of machines do you use. Why can't you change tools and work with steel or ti?

Stems, make some stems! Few people make nice threadless stems and no-one makes any with enough drop to get that old skool track look.

I'm still looking for a threadless stem that actually gets my bars where I want them.

Isn't this what happened with chub's hubs? cool aesthetics and idea, but poor engineering?

I would think that CNC machining a stem would take an incredibly large amount of raw alu stock for one stem, and especially so for one with a lot of drop. And then you have to machine out the inside to save weight, etc.
But then again i'm not a CNC machinist, and I also don't know what the hell i'm talking about.

We're an aluminum shop, we always have been and always will be. We have 7 machining centers, and 7 mill machines. Haas has been good to us, and I think we're getting some new stuff soon. The tools we own for the mills and lathes are for aluminum, switching to steel or titanium isn't an option, we have too many contracts that keep the aluminum flowing. Steel is a different breed, it'd be a nice change, i'm sick of the aluminum scraps stuck in my carpet that I drag home.

I'd be scared to ride a CNC'd stem. but I'm no metallurigist. I thought stems were forged for strength reasons?

Aren't thompson stems/seatposts cnc machined? There are also many DH MTB ugly blocky type cnc stems...

If they are, then I my fears are unfounded.
i thought they were forged then CNC'd

copy that 3 speed fixed hub from the 70's. get rich and retire!