I do eat bugs occasionally on an accidental basis. I figure that as long as I'm not intentionally eating them, that a few accidents are acceptable. The reality of the fact is that everyone eats animals occasionally. Spiders crawl in your mouth while you sleep and you eat them, bugs fly in your teeth as your ride, and you eat them. In fact, the FDA actually has a detailed website listing the allowable quantities of insect parts in common foods before it is considered a problem. Insects are the most varied creatures on earth, and one in every five animals on the planet is a beetle. They get in everything, and you are just gonna eat some.

A most enlightening read is the FDA's Defect Action Level Handbook: http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/dalbook.html

The handbook details many different foods, and the allowable quantities of insect parts, rodent hairs, and grit. You may be surprised at how much is really allowed in common foods. For instance, peanut butter can contain up to 30 insect fragments per 100 grams (which isn't much peanut butter).

I don't post this to 'freak out' vegetarians, its just an interesting little read. Insects, while animals, aren't the health or environmental problem that cows are. Eating a few insects doesn't really impact the health of the world, so I don't mind. I don't seek them out, of course, but I'm OK with the reality of the situation.

peace,
sam

I don't mean any offense at all
I have all the respect in the world for vegans and vegetarians
All the arguments for it I agree with, it's just something I could never have the will power to do.
but, what is with all this "I am vegan but I eat..." and "I'm a vegetarian but I eat..."
I mean, I don't eat fish, cause I dont like it, and I don't eat red meat, cause I just dont, so all I really eat is poultry but I would never consider saying "i'm a vegetarian but I eat chicken."
It seems to me that there is no degree of veganism or vegetarianism. They're both absolutes. Either you don't eat something or you do. I dunno. I was more just curious and I didn't mean to question or judge anyones choices.

I thought about saying something along those lines, too, but I didn't want to open up that can of worms...coming from a vegan I have a feeling I would have come across as preachy, and I hate that...so, yes...I would also like to know the thought process behind that. but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are absolutes, at least not veganism. I mean, eating is one thing, but there are animal products in SO much things it is really quite impossible to be 100% vegan. I mean, refined sugar, technically not vegan, as it is filtered through a bone char filter. water...same deal. There are animal products in the curing agents in concrete, and I really am quite sure that tires (auto or bike) are not vegan. I am not saying this to bar anyone from veganism, as I said, I am vegan. It is mostly just making a concious effort to eliminate AS MUCH animal products as possible. A lot of vegans eat honey (i myself do not) with no qualms. I mean, if you eat dead animals, you aren't vegan, that said, are you not vegan if you ride a bike? or race on a track (as mentioned in the last thread i started) I don't know....that's all I got...

-jason

i've been vegetarian since 98 (with a couple brief seafood eating lapses) and vegan for a bit over a year.

i see your point completely. with vegetarianism, there are so many variations as to what people consider being vegetarian... such as the fringe items of eggs and fish and dairy... i don't mind that. except i do get irritated when someone says their vegetarian and still eat poultry. "must be from the chicken tree huh?"

i do get pretty bent with people claiming vegan and aren't truely and don't know crap about it. i hate when i know more about their diet then they do. "well, i'm vegan. so..." "oh really? that beer isn't vegan..." "there's no meat in beer dood." right. i'm not trying to start something with whoever wrote it, but someone mentioned i'm vegan but... to me vegan is the utter absolute. leave the gray areas to the vegetarians. i have nothing but utter respect for veganism. as xthugmurderx mentioned, things like tires or concrete, etc. use animal products too, but where do you draw the line with how you're going to ride your bike or what you can ride it on!? i think if i was a vegan i would go insane thinking about all those little things. i just try to do my best and make the best compromises that reap the greatest good.

ultimately, as long as people are making a conscious effort to make a difference, (whether purely for themselves or also for animals, the environment, anti-capitalism/consumerism, etc.), i think that is great.

Another can of worms:
Fossil fuels: vegan or no? :D

Vegetarian for 8 or 9 months, I'm very happy with my choice but I'm not righteous about it.

One of the weirder experiences I had was when I spoke briefly with a girl at the pharmacy school I attend, she asked me if I was vegetarian because my girlfriend was (what? I was single anyway...)
me: "no, I'm doing it for a healthier lifestyle"
her: "well that's dumb"
"why's that?"
"because you NEED animal protein"
"...and why would you think that?"
followed of course by her mumbling something and shutting up. I haven't heard about anyone dying from vegetarianism recently. I just found it sad that someone a few months away from getting a doctorate in the health sciences could be so illusioned.

so many corrupt ideals are institutionalized. she probably "learned" that somewhere. you do need omega 3's and amino acids, but you can get vegan sources for those. :)

the vegan issue with fossil fuel is another one of those things that makes me not want to be vegan for the simple fact that i would die from obsessive compulsive disorder. then i would start wondering about what is in the cutting fluid used at the thomson factory that machined my aluminum seatpost and what the operator ate for lunch. sheesh. but as xthugmurderx said, it truely is about getting rid of as much of animal products in your life as possible.

vegan and sober.

i am in love, and loved. thats enough to make me value my body and mind.

i've been vegan for about 6 years and i was vegetarian for about 6 before that. i do it primarily for ethical reasons, i've been involved in human rights work for many years and at one point decided to broaden my analysis of oppression to include non-human creatures. i do my best to buy vegan, worker and environmentally friendly products, clothes, etc. i do realize though that we live in a capitalist society where everything is a commodity and there is NO way to completely remove yourself from exploitation, be it the exploitation of workers, animals, or the environment. we just have to do the best we can. since i started working at sevananda natural foods co-op part time though, i've really started to look at the health benefits of veganism and eating organic products. oh and i agree with the comments made by hyperrevue, xthugmurderx, and isotopesope about "i'm vegan (or vegetarian), but i eat...."

Again not to stir it up but I agree with the whole your either a vegetarian or not. I mean if you eat snails your not a vegetarian. Also a lot have mentioned how eating meat makes you feel lazy and tired but yet they drink PBR?

Personally I eat what ever I want. I used to only kill the meat that I ate but that’s changed now too. I always felt better killing my food rather than going to the grocery and buying packaged up animal product. I am an animal after all and so are all of us. Imo killing food is taking part in life. I don’t love animals any less because I have killed them in fact imo I feel as though I love and respect them more. You may find that strange. I lived in a secluded place for about year and went to the grocery store maybe 3 times and generated about one grocery bag full of garbage. And I ate like a king. Times have changed for me and I really find food as more of an annoyance than anything because it takes up too damn much time. So I often just eat lots of pasta and when possible only free range organic meat because I don't trust the big meat machine.

not vegitarian or vegan or even close (respect to those who are) but i try to eat only organic/freerange products as much as possible. i would rather support local growers/ artizans than eat lots of mass produced/farmed vegtables. plus organic local food tastes so much better.

my girlfriend lives in grafton, wi

Rock! does she ride? i see a few bikers around but mostly guys and no other fixed riders.

I never claim I'm a vegetarian since I consume seafood occasionally - because I like it, especially that Japanese... However that's a slim margin these days. I thought about it some more and I can't remember the last time I actually went out for sushi, when a few years ago it was almost a daily occurence. I make my own sushi now, mostly tempura and vegetables and tofu skins and the like.

However, in the presence of others who I really don't want to get into a big deal about diet with, I'll just say I'm vegetarian because it's so much simpler than having to explain to people who'll never get it what it's about. They just give you that look.

And you give them that look right back.

As for drinking - I drink only socially, usually on one day of the weekend. I never have alcohol in the apartment, I never buy it save for dinners and such unless I'm entertaining and cooking for others and they want it. I never think about it when going to get groceries or such. I used to be "straight edge" - again a term I say cautiously use moreso because I didn't decide to be straight edge but rather I was born and raised as so. I do care about my health and I'll have a drink or two but I like to "tan the bevvy" as it were and savour the drink which is why I never drink cheap beer. If I'm putting it down my throat, please, let it be tasty and good.

Regardless, I'm excited that people are trying it and investigating it for the various different reasons and if they take to it, even better.

she rides an old schwinn breeze and i am planning on building her a fixie when i move back to MKE at the end of the month.
i have two good friends who are fixie riders from grafton, however they don't ride as much in grafton as they do in milwaukee -- more for commuting.
when i get back though I'm planning on starting up Critical Mass again in Milwaukee, you should definitely be there.

deftonatly will be there. hmm i wonder if we know the same peeps, i have a few friends into biking/hipster/computer nerd stuff that used to live around here but now all live in mke. i will be moving back to milwaukee after i get married but its just so damn convienent living .5mi from work. PM me so the thread can stay on topic.

"ultimately, as long as people are making a conscious effort to make a difference, (whether purely for themselves or also for animals, the environment, anti-capitalism/consumerism, etc.), i think that is great."

exactly. any effort towards reducing damage done to the environment or animal suffering is admirable. people shouldn't feel like it's an all-or-nothing choice. who cares if you can label yourself vegan or not. if you eat cheese but drink soy milk instead of dairy milk that's great. if you cut any form of meat outta your diet, or limit meat to twice a week, that's awesome. people are intimidated by feeling they have to make a total commitment to an ideology and that's silly.

i try and base all of my decisions on creating the smallest amount of suffering possible with my life, whether that's being vegan, buying organic/fair trade, or buying non-sweatshop. i realize it's (nearly) impossible to completely eliminate all forms of suffering from my life, but i'm doing my best and if everyone tried to do their best, even if that was simply no longer eating red meat, then it would make a significant impact.

I couldn't get through every post, so maybe I missed it, but for all the people who only eat fish, a major study in 2003 showed that 90%, yes 90% of the world's predatory fish population has disappeared from overfishing in the last 50-100 years. Fishermen travel across the globe to the few spots left to catch whatever they can, and the fish they take in are smaller than ever, mainly because they are younger and many have not even reproduced yet.

So next time you eat tuna, swordfish, or shark, remember that you're basically eating an endangered species. Salmon is also doing really poorly, but there are places in the Pacific Northwest who have controls in place to help the population from diminishing. Your local fish supplier should be able to confirm where if he gets his salmon from such a place, although it does cost more.

The Bluefin tuna is especially in danger. Don't worry about the dolphin in your tuna, worry about the tuna in your tuna. (albacore, yellow fin, etc. tuna are doing better, so don't worry about all tuna).

here is a handy little guide for fish eaters to help know what fish to get:

http://www.seafoodwatch.org/cr/cr_se..._regional.aspx

so the flesh of chickens and/or fish doesnt count as meat?

Common usage of the word meat refers to Animal or more specifically MAMMAL meat. Thus under those terms no it does not. (Before you start getting red with anger, look at most cookbooks that have categories of seafood, poultry, meat, and veggie) However I do understand many people refer to meat as meat from any species whether it flies swims or squirms. I prefer not to say I dont eat red-meat because it causes the immediate: "well pork is not red meat" argument. I prefer not to say I dont eat anything with 4-legs, because that implies I dont eat it for animal rights issues. So instead I chose to be specific as possible by saying what i do and do not eat in hopes to avoid misunderstanding. thus the "semi-veg" term. but as they say, you can't please ALL the people ALL the time.

edit: what i originally said and was scolded for: I eat poultry and fish but stay away from meat.

so what about a 3 legged cow?
;)

Where do you think I get my secret stash of jerky from ... :lol:

keep your hands off my meat . .
:D

LIAR!!

I and the rest of the world (you, inclusive!) know that vigo rice has chicken meat in it!!

maybe you guys oughta get a room :rolleyes: