I have a custom Rock Lobster track and am extremely happy with it. Check the website and Give Paul Sadoff a call if you want to talk about lugs...I know he likes doing them (although I chose Reynolds 853 tigged - mine was $950 w/Columbus-tubed straight blade fork).
http://rocklobstercycles.com/

You should support the locals, up here in the Northwest. Then you can get a custom frame and know the builder.

Personally, I think Erickson carves some very sexy lugs on his builds:
http://www.sandsmachine.com/bp_erick.htm
http://www.bicycletrader.com/archive...ticles.html#03
http://www.ericksoncycles.com/

In Oregon, you could talk to Jeff Lyon. He builds a solid, sexy bike, and is inexpensive:
http://www.lyonsport.com/

Rivendell makes a nice bike:
http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/

does johnny coast of coast cycles have a site? i saw him mentioned here but can't find a site

Oh man, an off-the-shelf Bob Jackson is $550? I think I found my next frame. ;)

Though that next frame was supposed to be a Circle A.

I'll have to weight my options.

Curse you Ken! For bringing this up! :)

Though isotopesope wants me to get a Ground Up...

the only de bernardi frame I've ever seen had a cracked bottom bracket where it met the seat tube. hmm...

I don't know much about DeBernardi, and would never buy one, simply because the paint job is SO BAD. The stuff will flake off if you flick it with your fingernail. Seriously, if they skimp that much on the paint, what else did they skimp on?


edited note: I say this about their track frames. I have seen people riding their road frames, and they all looked pretty fantastic. They must paint them differently or something.

Man, if I was turning 60, I'd be looking at something better than a DeBernardi or Bob Jackson. If you've only got a grand to spend, I'd recomend a TIG'd frame made from Columbus Zona. Lugged frames at that price are pretty nasty.

yeah, my next frame is almost definately gonna be a circle a.

jonny bikes are hot as well. i saw one this weekend (the green one on his site) and thought it looked so nice that i actually had a dream about it that night!

See:

http://www.coastouttabrooklyn.com/

Nope. Didn't want to bother. Not worth the effort. I would rather personally oversee any fixes myself.

http://www.fototime.com/46F046252190A78/standard.jpg

I apologize for the quality. Took real quick snaps. To see a few more, just go to fototime , login as guest by typing my hotmail address: jose_r66 *at* hotmail *dot* com. Open the "track bike" album. The bike, obviously, is still a work in progress.

i disagree wholeheartedly. a custom *lugged* mercian super vigorelli, utilizing reynolds 853 tubing, is approximately $1000. surely i'd never think of referring to such a frame as "pretty nasty".

Why don't you build your own frame? I think it would be a blast to research and build my own lugged frame. There is tons of info on the web and the frame builders forum (or list serve I forget). I'm starting to look in to it now.

As I actually know what 1000 bucks buys you - from a raw materials, labour, jigging, quality of production, disbursement etc etc standpoint, believe me when I say you want TIG at that price. The quality is much better.

However, if you think a Mercian is just a more sensible option than say a Kirk or a Sachs or a Eisentraut because it's cheaper, then you're kidding yourself. If you've got a spare moment, here's a good example. Check out 'sorebutt's' (from the roadie forum) 'Traut vs this close up pic of the Mercian you mentioned.

http://www.litman.com/bikes/seat%20clamp%20big.jpg
http://www.merciancycles.com/frame_i...gorelli_v4.jpg

but then you'd be riding a tig welded bike.

It's always nice to have a look at the local folks, and Oregon has some sweet framebuilders:

Desalvo
Lyon

Lyon's are beautiful and the folks at DeSalvo are sweet. If they don't excite you though, here's a list of a
jillion builders including our own Don Walker.

Take care...

Jim

nobody's mentioned Don Walker yet?

edit, oh wait. jimv just did

While I have to agree that TIG would give you better quality tubing for the price than lugged, I don't like the way you are dissing Mercian. Mercian makes very nice frames in traditional way, like a lot of other British builders. They are not boutique builders like Sachs or Vanilla, but they are doing this for 60 years, they know what they are doing.
And that photo of mercian doesn't do any justice.
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/ima...n/MercnD5L.jpg
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/ima...n/MercnD4L.jpg
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/ima...n/MercnD3L.jpg

thylacine: i also have an understanding what 1000 dollars will buy you. i'm not debating the fact that a tig'd frame will have a better price to quality ratio than lugged. you mentioned too, however, that "Lugged frames at that price ($1000) are pretty nasty". a bit of a sweeping generalization, i thought, and this is where the discrepancy presents itself.

Blech, fastback seat stays.
Even if the 'Traut has a higher level of finishing, does smoother sanded lugs make for better ride quality?

This thread has provided me with more options than I thought probable.

I don't understand the TIG vs Lug discussion, nor the message in Thylacine's posted photos.

I had assumed that lugged frames, albeit slightly heavier, do not heat distress the tubing as much as does TIG welding.
I suspect I don't understand TIG welding.

I'll do a quick search on TIG welding, and perhaps someone can make a few illuminating comments.

If a TIG'ed frame becomes an option for you, I would check out a steel Marinoni Pista. Marinonis are beautiful bikes and the newer TIG welded ones I've seen are no exception. Columbus Zona tubing, lots of paint/chrome options. A frame+fork goes for about $675CDN. They can do full custom geometry, but I'm not sure how much (if anything) that adds to the cost.

m.

First, I am not a framebuilder but I do own a full custom bike (Rodriguez) and spent alot of time looking at options to better educate myself for the second largest purchase I was about to make. Though I love the look of a lugged frame, I chose tig for the reason mentioned by Thylacine .... I wanted the best bike for the money I had to spend.

Obviously, the tig process requires more heat than brazing but that's not necessarily a bad thing if you use 'air-hardened' tubing. The framebuilders here can explain it better, but my understsnding is that the final heat cycle of the hardening process is not performed at the factory, but at build time by the heat of the weld. This steel is stronger at the welds. For what it's worth, I chose Tru-Temper Ox Platinum tube and ....Oh my... really sweet.

Jim

I didn't search the thread for it, but as the last few posts are about putting tubes together... why not consider something fillet brazed?

Fillet brazing is kindof like building the lugs in place. A small piece of metal is heated and used to join the tubes. Many fillet brazes are filed before painting. It makes for a sexy, durable finish.

I just got my gf a half lugged (bb, stays), half fillet brazed Jeff Lyon frame. It should make for a very nice, long lived ride.

Here's an interesting article on fillet brazed, lugged and tig manufacture: http://www.anvilbikes.com/story.php?news_ID=19&catID=3

full custom adds nothing to the cost, as they only build their pista frames with custom geometry.

But I guess you'll have to pay for a fitting somewhere.