Level Components Track Hub
06-16-05 | 01:32 PM
#26
All Things Go
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
From: dayton, oh
Bikes: 01 bianchi pista, custom. 04 felt f-15, full record.
I'm feeling the same way about the white industries ENO cranks i just ordered -- yeah they're beefy and very pretty, but am i going to be able to get my hands on chainrings in the future? White has been around for awhile though, so i guess i'm a little more confident. But i definitely understand the discomfort that surrounds dropping big bucks on propietary technology for the bike...
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NO! It is the FARGATE! It is not some other kind of gate from a movie or TV show that I've never seen! Notice that it has a wheelchair and a pink mohawk? We're not getting sued!
NO! It is the FARGATE! It is not some other kind of gate from a movie or TV show that I've never seen! Notice that it has a wheelchair and a pink mohawk? We're not getting sued!
06-16-05 | 01:37 PM
#27
Traffic shark
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,612
Likes: 0
From: California
Bikes: 2 fixies, 1 road, 29er in the works.
Absntr, your quote "in the meantime".
From the song Minimize with the full quote "In the meantime, back to minimize!" Who sang it, or am I far off the mark?
From the song Minimize with the full quote "In the meantime, back to minimize!" Who sang it, or am I far off the mark?
06-16-05 | 01:53 PM
#30
Thread Starter
Carefree
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
From: London
Bikes: Brompton S1E, Fuji Feather
Thanks. Some useful input here. As yet, no shops in the UK stock them. They're only currently available thru www.hubjub.co.uk (good site) so the likelihood of seeing one up close enough to make a decision is fairly limited. The price is quite forbidding as well. For the hub, cog and 120mm conversion kit it costs £170. I can get three full sets of Miche for that. I like the idea, but I think I'll wait.
06-16-05 | 02:17 PM
#31
BFSSFG old timer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,912
Likes: 1
From: Fredrock
Quick thoughts on this thread:
I brought up the issue of cog availability with Level, you can see their response I posted in this earlier thread.
Phil Woods are top notch, but even those can strip. Dig through Matt Chester's posts on the 9th and 13th and you'll see he's buggered one side of his Phil. But, I'm sure it has tons of miles on it and he's planning on getting another one, so that's a sure stamp of approval.
Personally I hope Level makes it. It's a great idea.
I brought up the issue of cog availability with Level, you can see their response I posted in this earlier thread.
Phil Woods are top notch, but even those can strip. Dig through Matt Chester's posts on the 9th and 13th and you'll see he's buggered one side of his Phil. But, I'm sure it has tons of miles on it and he's planning on getting another one, so that's a sure stamp of approval.
Personally I hope Level makes it. It's a great idea.
06-16-05 | 02:26 PM
#32
Spoked to Death
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 1
From: Boulder, CO
Bikes: Salsa La Cruz w/ Alfine 8, Specialized Fuse Pro 27.5+, Surly 1x1
Cogs are easy to machine, even without Level's explicit approval it wouldn't be difficult to start producing compatible cogs if level were to go under. In fact, if the hubs are as long-lasting as their design suggests they will be, then if Level were to go under, one could have a reasonable little business selling Level-compatible cogs that wouldn't be hard to machine. In fact, you could even do small runs with companies like emachineshop.com and cut out 50-100 cogs at a time.
But hopefully it doesn't come to that. If they stick around for a while and are flexible with other companies wanting to produce splined cogs, then they'll last.
I don't have 250 clams to spend on a new technology right now (or 250 to spend on old technology, for that matter), but if I were in the market for a top-shelf hub, I'd definately be looking at the Level...
Some people are diehard early adopters who buy anything new the second it hits the market. Some people are diehard traditionalists, who only trust things that have been around longer than they have. The rest of us (most of us) fall somewhere in the middle, and its a delicate balance to find the position that is the most reasonable, since either extreme has its severe downsides.
peace,
sam
But hopefully it doesn't come to that. If they stick around for a while and are flexible with other companies wanting to produce splined cogs, then they'll last.
I don't have 250 clams to spend on a new technology right now (or 250 to spend on old technology, for that matter), but if I were in the market for a top-shelf hub, I'd definately be looking at the Level...
Some people are diehard early adopters who buy anything new the second it hits the market. Some people are diehard traditionalists, who only trust things that have been around longer than they have. The rest of us (most of us) fall somewhere in the middle, and its a delicate balance to find the position that is the most reasonable, since either extreme has its severe downsides.
peace,
sam
06-17-05 | 08:39 AM
#35
Wher'd u Get That Jacket?
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,317
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere in the Tubes
Bikes: Calfee Dragonfly, Lemond Poprad, Airborne Manhatten Project, Calfee Luna Fixie
Originally Posted by William Karsten
This "attack the buyer on the personal level" is BS. "live in the past" because people choose not to buy something that is AT THIS TIME NOT PROVEN OVER THE TEST OF TIME... C'mon. You're smarter than that, right?
Originally Posted by William Karsten
Tell me, what makes the Level hub BETTER than a Phil or Paul with a properly installed lock ring?
At this point, it's only different. And not proven yet.
At this point, it's only different. And not proven yet.
The high flanges are really really high and offer great lateral stiffness. The ride is very smooth and the hub takes off some of the road vibration rather well. Not ping-y. Nice finish to it. Skidding response is firmer than with a standard hub (I had Suntour Superbe Pros for years and they were quite nice), more immediate.
BTW if you don't have a torx wrench or don't want to carry one, you can replace those bolts (that come with the Level) with a water-bottle cage bolt.
06-17-05 | 08:42 AM
#36
cripple
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
From: all up in ya grill...
Originally Posted by flythebike
You're boring. Go eat some pie.
Lots of people are so locked into a gear choice that they choose it as their nick. I like to change ratios often, to suit my day-to-day strength level. Being a racer that can vary quite a bit depending on if I raced the day before, if I want to put a governor on my pace do to an impending race or whatever. If this sounds like something you'd like to be able to do, pull the trigger on the Levels. Quite a nice looking hub; smooth, resistant to torque and such. Pretty. Innovative.
Many here are not old enough to remember the pre-STI days. All the pros persisted for several years with using down-tube shift levers. Finally they started losing races to people with STI, BECAUSE OF it. That forced the switch.
The ability to easily change ratios; and the resistance to stripping makes it worth choosing over the other hubs out there. The quality is certainly on par. As far as Scott's ability to make Level a viable buisness in the years to come, all we can do is support him and intend for these hubs to catch on. I really think the anology between friction-downtube and click-shift-handlebar shifting is valid. It is a paradigm shift that just transforms things completely. I mean, why live in the past just because other people do so...of course I'd say that if you're happy with what you have, keep rolling with it, but if you're looking to buy...go for it.
Lots of people are so locked into a gear choice that they choose it as their nick. I like to change ratios often, to suit my day-to-day strength level. Being a racer that can vary quite a bit depending on if I raced the day before, if I want to put a governor on my pace do to an impending race or whatever. If this sounds like something you'd like to be able to do, pull the trigger on the Levels. Quite a nice looking hub; smooth, resistant to torque and such. Pretty. Innovative.
Many here are not old enough to remember the pre-STI days. All the pros persisted for several years with using down-tube shift levers. Finally they started losing races to people with STI, BECAUSE OF it. That forced the switch.
The ability to easily change ratios; and the resistance to stripping makes it worth choosing over the other hubs out there. The quality is certainly on par. As far as Scott's ability to make Level a viable buisness in the years to come, all we can do is support him and intend for these hubs to catch on. I really think the anology between friction-downtube and click-shift-handlebar shifting is valid. It is a paradigm shift that just transforms things completely. I mean, why live in the past just because other people do so...of course I'd say that if you're happy with what you have, keep rolling with it, but if you're looking to buy...go for it.
Originally Posted by absntr
Will- get the Phil's. The Pauls haven't been around all that long and if you search there's been threads about the big nut cracking. I was looking at Paul's but like you said, why risk it? Phil's baby.
plus he's sold some designs to shimano, and if they can trust him i think that says a good deal in his favor...
06-17-05 | 02:53 PM
#38
dc pirate, 4evah.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 0
From: seattle
Bikes: several. blue. fun.
are we to the point yet of expressing our feelings about the level hub in the form of haiku?
Level hubs look nice
when they sit in the shop case
but on bikes they suck
Level hubs look nice
when they sit in the shop case
but on bikes they suck
06-17-05 | 04:07 PM
#40
Shiftless bum
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,693
Likes: 1
From: Ottawa, Ontario
Bikes: Apollo fixed winter bike, Gazelle Cross, Baboe Cargo bike, Linskey Rouleur Road, Bridgestone Picnica, Tern C7, 2nd gen Strida
I like my levels
And did I mention this fact?
My levels are black
And did I mention this fact?
My levels are black
06-17-05 | 04:11 PM
#41
Originally Posted by Erich Zann
i picked up a level rear hub in display at a shop. it was VERY HEAVY.
This is for REAR Track Hubs with NO COGS mounted or lockrings.
IRO Hubs: 330grams - got this from Sheldon Browns site
LEVEL: 400grams (just weighed it)
Phil High Flange: Between 417grams and 432grams depending on spacing for the double fixed version - (Data also from Sheldon Brown's Site)
Since the Level cogs are beefy, they add an additional 75grams when mounted. But even thoug the Level Cogs are heavier, when you add a "normal cog AND lockring" you're looking at a similar increase.
So Erich, perhaps you should lift a Phil hub next time you're in the shop, but use your other hand so you can get an even workout..
06-20-05 | 11:15 AM
#42
Gone, but not forgotten
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 1
From: Toronto
Bikes: spicer fixie, Haro BMX, cyclops track, Soma Double Cross, KHS Flite 100
wahhh I want my wheels.
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I'm biking across North America on the Internet!
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06-23-05 | 01:28 PM
#44
PS NOT STOLEN
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: 57cm NJS Bridgestone
Why does buying a hub have to be thought of in this lifetime-length scale. OMG WHAT IF THE UNIVERSAL WORLD ORDER DOESNT REARRANGE ITSELF AROUND MY HUB?? How long do you people think youre going to keep this thing, how long do you think a cog takes to wear out? Just go buy 3 of each cog between 13 and 17 and youll never ever think about it again. Since you're planning on riding this thing for forever, the extra expense amortizes very easily. hub (250) plus cogs (150) / infinity = 0.
06-27-05 | 04:45 PM
#45
Well I am on my third Rear Wheel since riding my first fixie 4years ago.
#1 Dura Ace - SOLD with bike
#2 Miche - In my closet with Cog stuck on it
#3 Level
So I know for sure that hubs, or any other parts are not for LIFE. That being said...I will definitely be riding my Level for a longer amount of time, simply due to the investment, if not the fact that I am ALSO in love with it.
#1 Dura Ace - SOLD with bike
#2 Miche - In my closet with Cog stuck on it
#3 Level
So I know for sure that hubs, or any other parts are not for LIFE. That being said...I will definitely be riding my Level for a longer amount of time, simply due to the investment, if not the fact that I am ALSO in love with it.
06-28-05 | 11:22 AM
#46
Traffic shark
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,612
Likes: 0
From: California
Bikes: 2 fixies, 1 road, 29er in the works.
Originally Posted by Mouton
Why does buying a hub have to be thought of in this lifetime-length scale. OMG WHAT IF THE UNIVERSAL WORLD ORDER DOESNT REARRANGE ITSELF AROUND MY HUB?? How long do you people think youre going to keep this thing, how long do you think a cog takes to wear out?
06-28-05 | 11:56 AM
#47
PS NOT STOLEN
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: 57cm NJS Bridgestone
The design of the cog was mentioned in 6 of the 25 posts on the first page.
"The potential quality of the product" is ambiguous, but it seems agreed that the level hub is materially overbuilt and they feel good out of the box. I am talking particularly about the longevity of a cog because I feel the longevity of a hub is so long that its almost unimportant in decision of which hub to buy. This is my rant. You are not buying a new way of life, its just one hub. Even if its twice as expensive, its going to last you longer than your memory of the money so its unimportant. If you want to talk about the feel of a newly built ride, great. If you want to talk about durability, great. If you want to be snarky, carry on.
"The potential quality of the product" is ambiguous, but it seems agreed that the level hub is materially overbuilt and they feel good out of the box. I am talking particularly about the longevity of a cog because I feel the longevity of a hub is so long that its almost unimportant in decision of which hub to buy. This is my rant. You are not buying a new way of life, its just one hub. Even if its twice as expensive, its going to last you longer than your memory of the money so its unimportant. If you want to talk about the feel of a newly built ride, great. If you want to talk about durability, great. If you want to be snarky, carry on.
06-28-05 | 12:00 PM
#48
Iguana Subsystem
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,016
Likes: 0
From: san francisco
it might just be one hub, but it's a significant financial outlay for most of us, and if i was considering investing that much cash in a chunk of hardware that i only knew a little about, i'd want to get as much input as i could.
06-28-05 | 12:14 PM
#49
Traffic shark
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,612
Likes: 0
From: California
Bikes: 2 fixies, 1 road, 29er in the works.
Originally Posted by Mouton
The design of the cog was mentioned in 6 of the 25 posts on the first page.
"The potential quality of the product" is ambiguous, but it seems agreed that the level hub is materially overbuilt and they feel good out of the box. I am talking particularly about the longevity of a cog because I feel the longevity of a hub is so long that its almost unimportant in decision of which hub to buy. This is my rant. You are not buying a new way of life, its just one hub. Even if its twice as expensive, its going to last you longer than your memory of the money so its unimportant. If you want to talk about the feel of a newly built ride, great. If you want to talk about durability, great. If you want to be snarky, carry on.
"The potential quality of the product" is ambiguous, but it seems agreed that the level hub is materially overbuilt and they feel good out of the box. I am talking particularly about the longevity of a cog because I feel the longevity of a hub is so long that its almost unimportant in decision of which hub to buy. This is my rant. You are not buying a new way of life, its just one hub. Even if its twice as expensive, its going to last you longer than your memory of the money so its unimportant. If you want to talk about the feel of a newly built ride, great. If you want to talk about durability, great. If you want to be snarky, carry on.
Glad you're keeping count of the post... So far I've counted 10 things wrong with your post.
The potential quality of the product is indeed very important. It may LOOK over built. And who is to say it will last longer than my memory of the money. Ask CHUB HUB owners about that.
Snarky. That's a new one for me. I'll have to write that down.
06-28-05 | 12:36 PM
#50
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh!
Bikes: Track bike, road fixed, cross fixed, two single speed mountain.
No bull*****, I broke the rear axle of my Level hub this past weekend. Well, I'm not sure when it broke, but I discovered it this weekend... Was switching my gearing up by a tooth, and when I had the wheel out of the bike to switch the cog I noticed that the axle end seemed loose. Pulled the extra long axle fixing bolt out, and found that the axle had broken the entire way around. The only thing holding it together was the extra long bolt, and the fact that the axle was threaded the entire way through. I have no idea how long it has been busted, or how it happened. Just that it's now broken, I've never crashed that bike, and the hub has only been in service since February.
Waiting on word from Level on a new axle. I suspect it won't be a problem, but figured I'd report my findings. I've gained a lot of info from this board over the past two years of lurking, might as well contribute sometimes.
-brad
Waiting on word from Level on a new axle. I suspect it won't be a problem, but figured I'd report my findings. I've gained a lot of info from this board over the past two years of lurking, might as well contribute sometimes.
-brad