might be why some people call them "crackandfail"s... not giving you a hard time, i've never owned a cannondale, i've just heard that their welds crack...


the two pearls of welding wisdom i was given were:
for aluminum: "it should look like a fallen stack of nickles"
for steel: "it should sound like sizzling bacon"

like i said, i really have no experience with aluminum, but i know the people who taught me would grind down and smooth steel welds all the time, but it never happened with aluminum...


and again, note, i'm really just making some slightly educated assumptions about this...


all that said, the welds on the fetish frame look waaaaaay better than on the leader...

Yup, the Fetish and leader aren't the same. In addition to the welds, note the difference in seatstay cluster placement and the headtube junction. Track end shaping is also different.

i thought cannondale hand sanded their welds?

I have no idea. Can you tell from these pics?

From what I know, Leader bikes is Taiwanese owned bike company with their own manufacturing with a division selling in the USA.

Fetish is an American Company that has their frames built in Taiwan. I know of at least half a dozen serious manufacturers in Taiwan, and I know that they probably build frames for several companies each, so I am sure there will be some similarities. I am fairly sure that the frames are built by separate manufacturers.

These companies need to spend more money on decal design.

God damn.

Thanks Don. What are the consequences of sanding a weld?

It sounds about right for $25 worth of tubing and $3 worth of labor. I know you like your frame, and you should - it gets you out riding and that is what counts. Just my grumpy 2 cents on Taiwanese made frames.

Sorry, but the prices of Fetish or Leader really aren't so great when you consider they lack a fork and headset... probably don't have a seatpost clamp either.

Target now sells a roadbike for $99 that has horizontal dropouts (and bolt on rear wheels)- granted it is geared with shifters at the stem, and it weighs 40lbs... and I've never heard of the brand, and the derailleur (and maybe even the chain) is made of plastic. It does have a fork and headset, and probably would make the cheapest conversion for a NEW bike. You'd even have some wheels that are mostly round to work with... and drop (albeit not pista) bars.

The Fetish, Leader, IRO, JADE or any OEM Taiwanese frames are going to have their positives and negatives, but the TARGET, or WALMAT $99 specials will give you nothing but heart ache and will cost you MUCH more money in the long run (or even short run) if you ride more than around the block once or twice a year. Literally there is NOTHING good about these bikes.

Most shoes cost more than $99 nowadays, so don't think for a second that you are getting ANYTHING worthwhile on an entire bike that is costing you $99 Retail (which probably cost $30 to manufacture).

The Fork will be crap, the frame will be HEAVY crap (the frame probably weighs 25lbs on its own), and the headset will likely feel like its grinding after two or three rides. Its not even worth the effort to take parts off it. You're MUCH better off buying an old beat up roadbike from the eighties at a garage sale and doing a conversion than wasting your money on one of these dollar store crap machines.

You WILL get what you pay for.

I was completely joking about the conversion- except that I actually DID see such a road bike at Target today. I can't imagine that the could even build one for the cost of wholesale.

i put a wal-mart kids bike together for someone once. it had a three month warranty on parts and a six month warranty on the frame.

yeah ... we did a neighborhood bike fix up event yesterday and all the kids came out with their wllmart/target/kmart specials. they were such a pain to work on because they just were not designed to be ridden for more than a summer let alone worked on. one older dude did bring in an awesome green puch road bike from the 70s and that was the highlight of the event for me.

if i were to make a line of kids bikes, they would be bmx frames with very adjustable seats and stems, mtb tires and a single speed coaster brake. after yesterday, i'm convinced that kids just don't need derails. cause no one brought in a bike the would actually shift. crap just got in the way.

ahem, that's Sister! But the sentiment is still the same.

Damn, Don, didn't you see the XX? How could you have missed that?

There are others out there that know we get what we pay for, would desperately love a handmade frame, but need to scour the cheap market for the best out there for the price.

How can I get my hands on a 61$ frame? Also, what does OEM mean? Thanks.

AMEN to you too!

Oh man, everytime we talk about the OEM frames, someone asks where they can get one for $61 dollars. OEM stands for ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURER. In Taiwan, there are several OEMs that make frames quite a few US Based companies.

The Companies that import these frames (which we have learned that some of which, in the Track frame realm anyways, wholesale for $60-ish each are required to bring in hundreds (I believe the minimum is 100) of frames in a single order to receive the deal. In order for this price to exist, mass production of these frames is required. This is why you see several small companies, with similar looking Alum track frames (Jade, Fetish, IRO, Leader etc...)

Don't think that $60 is a price that YOU can get. After shipping, customs, storage and profit margin, these frames are put on the retail market for $200-$300.

This is a great option for many people, as the frames look decent, work decent and are affordable, although someone always complains about how ugly the welds look (this is just a common look in Tig Welded Frames).

So if you WANT one of those $61 Frames, get a Fetish, a Jade, a Leader etc...but unless you want 100 of them, pay your $200+ (which is still nothing) and get out there.

But, if you want a bike that doesn't look like the thousands of imported frames that look exactly like it, that is MADE in North America, look to the builders like Don Walker, Winterborne, Marinoni etc.. to build you a frame that although will cost you more, will be:

1. High quality and will have personal care taken on a one by one basis

2. Have YOU in mind when being built (not just a number on an assembly line, and have your stubby legs or lanky arms taken into consideration when built. It will fit you.

Not to mention supporting your local builders will keep this art alive, and not lose the entire cycling market to mass/machine produced frame makers.

So in short, you can one of those frames pretty much anywhere I mentioned above and more, just NOT for $61.

Cool, thanks. Yeah, I knew that 61$ was an immpossibility, I was just being a smartass.

Welcome to the internet

We need to put a few signs up around here... "Don't feed the animals", "Don't taunt the framebuilders" etc.

Hey now, TIG doesn't have to be ugly.

Add: but it doesn't have to look good either.

It doesn't need to.