i wonder if DA and suzue pro max are one of the same,they look alike?

they don't look the same to me. in any case, they aren't.

Hey, they're both round and silver with little holes for spokes and funny thready things.

DUDE! THEY BOTH HAVE AXLES!!!
No waaaaaayyy.....

And nuts. . .but the Dura Ace looks to come with a lockring. So clearly they are not seperated twins.

slightly off topic but a while back we were talking about phil vs. suzue promax in terms of wheight. Weighed them both last night Suzue was 329g and the phil was 350. Both were weighed without lockrings, but with axle nuts/screws. Both were doublesided HF rear hubs. The fill was not the one with weight reduction. The one with weight reduction is 10% lighter and so would be lighter that the Suzue Promax (at about 2x the price).

Did you weigh the promax SB or the promax NJS?

darnit. I don't remember. I will weigh it again for you on Saturday. Will be building some new wheels then. With Phils and Deep Vs. Anyone ever stripped Phil threads?

Matt Chester has, he wrote about it in his blog. But he's also exploded EAI cogs, and probably put a bajillion miles on each before he did.

Matt Chester's not like us normal humans.

Just curious cause I stripped the lockring threads of my IRO hub. So I am building a new wheel with phils, which is essentially the same system. Guess if I kill those I'll go for some Levels.

When I did my "unscientific" by feel deduction I did so with an NJS 36 hole Suzue and a SLR Phil, both double sided. The Phil felt lighter - which by the above would be true.

But a single sided normal Phil also felt lighter - not sure if by that point, I couldn't tell or not, but I'm curious anyhow.