sorry but these bikes don't really do anything for me. reminds me of most of the stuff on FGG. they're just decent frames repainted with subtle colors, brooks saddles, silvery components and very senic backdrops.

put any of those bikes in a "city scene" and half of you would be *****ing about the slack geometry.

Half would be, but im not in that half.

Yeah, but the good half still likes 'em.

har!

my track bike gathers dust.

Kogswell

I know you have a business to run, but please stop diverting threads into adverts for that businees. This thread is about momovelo, not kogswell.

Maybe I'm just naive, but that didn't look much like an advert to me at all.

Exactly.

I teach special ed during the day (when my friends in Taiwan are asleep.) My favorite moments as a teacher are when I'm in an art class and I can coax a kid into learning to express himself for the first time. That's the best. When you see that look on a kid's face that says: 'Hey, that's me on that canvas.'

What Kai does is show people his interpretation of beauty. And that's fine. It's like going to an art exhibit. You learn from others.

What I object to is people going home and making momo-esque bikes.

I don't want to see your interpretation of Kai's interpretation of beauty.

I want to see YOUR interpretation of beauty.

It isn't easy.

I watch young people and old struggle with it.

But once they get over the initial hump, the payoff it spectacular.

Here's a photo of a Kogswell D model that some guy in Staten Island named Tony bought and painted:

]

When he sent it in, he mentioned that the orange was Mopar Orange, the color of a '68 Dodge Roadrunner. That's what I'm talking about. Tony knows himself and expresses it through his bikes. In my book that make him a perfect Kogswell owner. I think that shows in Tony's other work. He's not afraid to take his own lead and run with it.

Maybe you and Kai are the same person. Maybe everything he is is everything you are.

But on the odd chance that you have something inside you that needs to be expressed, I'd rather see a ink1373-esque Crosscheck.

Does anyone else feel as momentum does?

Have I hijacked this thread?

My intention was to expose the underlying abstraction of what powered momovelo to those who might not have had a chance to see or recognize it.

I do have a business to run. And part of running that business involves legitimizing online outfitting. When someone comes along and builds on the foundation of trust that's been formed by the sweat of thousands of competantly handled transactions, I think those of us who've actually turned the cranks and manned the levers have every right to scrutinize his use of that foundation. And when he undermines our work and wrecks havoc with that trust then it should come as no surprise to find out that we're taking an active role in seeing to it that the curtain is drawn back and the All Powerful Oz is seen for who he really is.

Call me Toto.

I am with you Kogswell - I can`t understand all this sentimental nostalgic hype for someone who has ripped so many people off

I'd like to tell you that I will, but then I'd be hijacking this thread.

I apologise for the late night posting - I think I jumped to conclusions about your post.

I have no sentimental attachment to momovelo - nice bikes but not my thing and a nice bike that isn't delivered isn't quite as nice. Plus over here in the UK we can get the real thing

I pray that it's powered by foregiveness and a devotion to art.

The time to make your mind up about people is never.

Please be clear on this, one and all: I'm always ready to give Kai another chance.

But I reserve the right be vigilant.

Don't be so hasty.

I'm a convicted thread hijacker who's on probation. Ask anyone here. I've been doing better lately but I defend your right to keep an eye on me and call the foul as you see it.

And speaking of UK bikes, you're right. You guys do have it good. I'd take a chrome Bob Jackson off the peg in heartbeat. And then there's the jumbles. I'll bet they bring out a gem or two.

Actually, mathew, i think you get to be here because you like bikes just like the rest of us. Just because you run a business doesn't mean you can't like singlespeeds and fixed gears.

Do you have a pic of any personal rides you would care to post in a thread about bicycle beauty?

those bikes are sad specimens, indeed. blah.

Mathew,
I really don't agree with "What I object to is people going home and making momo-esque bikes," there is nothing wrong with paying homage to a some one whose art you love. My current bike project is very much inspired by both momo and rivendell, but it's my interpretation, my homage, my art.

the whole bike industry is based off of copying others' designs. kogswell is clearly influenced by rivendell as much as momovelo was.

i didn't go buy each part off of the milktea page and build a clone, but i certainly took a few pages out of the momovelo book when i chose how to build my crosscheck. just as i took a few bits of inspiration from rivendell, ANT, matt chester, and many FGG submissions.

it would be a bold faced lie to say that the bike industry would be ANYTHING like what it is without this sort of behavior. take that as a positive or a negative, but i think we all know that the pista wouldn't have existed without a whole lot of track bike heritage.

art minus imitation = nothing

Hmmmm....

Kind of.

For folks who don't have a lot of contextual background, our frames may look like Rivendells. The model P is admittedly a Rambouillet copy because customers asked for it to be. So from my perspective the customers are influenced by Rivendell.

If you want to see what I think frames should look like, see a Model D, F, G, M or Portuer/Rando.

Personally my biggest influence is M. Eisentraut, stylistically. Understated elegence works for me.

Peep a cherry, all Super Record Eiisentraut in polychromatic fawn some time.

i have a friend back in mpls who has a beautiful eisentraut. username deathintransit. he doesn't post much though.

i have to agree that the eisen frame is amazing. the fork crown is quite the sight.

I'm with the other guy, Matt, bring back that sweet Kustard! Meanwhile, folks, keep in mind everybody's influenced by everybody. Heck, I'd build myself a beautiful Royal Tea fixie if I could paint worth a s##t...

Grant's RBs where influenced by 1970s race bikes, 1970s race bikes were influenced by...well, you get the point.

I can honestly say I drooled over Momovelo's site once a week, too,(more for the photography than the bikes themselves,) and it was pretty upsetting finding out about his shady business practices right here on Bikeforums. To say that I don't like his bikes and photos of his bikes because of his business practices is a little silly. I'm fully aware that Dostoyevsky was a butthole as a human being, but he's still my favorite author.

Kogswell definitely has a point about how Mr. Matsuda betrayed the trust of reputable online bicycle merchants everywhere, but now I just go to the Kogswell site once a week and drooool.

As far as the whole "copying an aesthetic"-thing goes, well, aren't pretty much all lugged steel manufacturers, and a few TIG bikes, copying older touring- and audax-type bicycles? I mean, I'm a total drinker of the retrogrouch kool-aid, but to say that Rivendell, Kogswell and Momovelo are more derivative of each other than older high end European bikes is kind of silly. It's not like these are companies who are trying to make the most aerodynamic recumbent on earth, they're copying older bikes. Artfully, beautifully and with great tubing and components, but none of it is anything very new.

E X A C T L Y

I'd like to collaborate with Matsuda the way that I've collaborated with Heine. Kai's a visual genius.

And your point about our stuff not being new is dead on. Design wise, stylisically we're more retrograde than ever. We've gone from 1982 to 1952. But the materials and the process fully modern. Is the Mazda Miata a better Lotus Elan? No. Well, maybe. Yeah, in a way.

Ooops, I'm hijacking.

Kai, call me.

On a side note, does anyone know where I could *buy* the milktea color, either for the bike or even -- gasp -- for my room? it's really a beautiful color

Well if you're looking for wet paint, just take a printout and head down to your local paint store. Hell, they'll have swatch books you can look through and will be able to mix a custom color if it's not in there.

For powder coat, they're probably using Drylac, so look through the Drylac swatches online. On the other hand, unless your display's color profile is properly setup, that's a pretty subtle tint and you may very well end up with something that's not quite right. Again, your powder coater should have a swatch book to pick it out of.