A can of worms - do helmets work?
08-23-06 | 03:06 AM
#1
Thread Starter
LF for the accentdeprived
Joined: May 2005
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From: Budapest, Hungary
A can of worms - do helmets work?
https://www.cyclehelmets.org/mf.html?1052
Read and dicuss.
Note to mods: we are the people to whom this is most relevant... We crash into cars all the time
Some quotes:
Helmet laws in Australia, New Zealand and parts of Canada [15] have resulted in the great majority of cyclists wearing helmets, but there has been no reduction in rates of head injury relative to cycle use. An analysis of enforced laws in these countries found no clear evidence of benefit [16].
In the USA, an increase in helmet use from 18% to 50% of cyclists over a decade was accompanied by a 10% increase in head injuries.
Research suggests that rotational force causes most of the fatal and disabling brain injuries in road crashes, but there is no assurance that cycle helmets can mitigate it. Indeed, there is some evidence that cycle helmets may increase it.
In all countries where helmet laws have been introduced and enforced, there has been a substantial reduction in cycle use [15]. Helmet promotion has also been shown to reduce cycle use [38]. Cycling has substantial health benefits [39] and people who cycle regularly live, on average, longer than non-cyclists with less illness and poor health [40]. Concern has therefore been expressed that any benefit from helmet wearing is outweighed by the loss of health benefits to those deterred from cycling. [Which is pretty relevant for me, personally... There are plans to make helmets legally obligatory here, and my neck is crappy beyond belief. I can't ride with a helmet, realistically.]
Helmeted cyclists have been shown to be more likely to hit their heads if they crash and may be more likely to crash in the first place [34]. The disproportionate number of helmet wearers who believe that a helmet has saved their life (see above) is further evidence that helmet use might adversely affect crash involvement or outcome.
There is a good deal of circumstantial evidence that helmeted cyclists are more likely to crash, and data from one study [4] suggests that those wearing a helmet are more than 7 times likely to hit their heads if they do.
Many falls result in arm and shoulder impacts that keep an unhelmeted head just clear of the ground. A helmeted head, being twice as big and a little heavier, is more likely to hit something
Cycle helmets fail catastrophically, not gradually, so it is a mistake to believe that they provide useful, if reduced, protection at higher velocities
This looks like the most thorough and scientific analysis of the issue by a long way. Don't dismiss it with "I crashed last week and my helmet saved my life" or "A friend of my died when he crashed without a helmet" Your anecdotal evidence < scientific research and statisitcal data of 2 billion or so people. See this: https://www.cyclehelmets.org/mf.html?1019
Let the fun begin!
BTW, the graph at https://www.cyclehelmets.org/ is a real eye-opener. Cyclists crash because motorists aren't used to them and don't take care of them. I don't know how the Dutch do 108% of their trips by bike, but it sure helps. The US leads the list of cyclist deaths per distance. Ewww
Read and dicuss.
Note to mods: we are the people to whom this is most relevant... We crash into cars all the time
Some quotes:
Helmet laws in Australia, New Zealand and parts of Canada [15] have resulted in the great majority of cyclists wearing helmets, but there has been no reduction in rates of head injury relative to cycle use. An analysis of enforced laws in these countries found no clear evidence of benefit [16].
In the USA, an increase in helmet use from 18% to 50% of cyclists over a decade was accompanied by a 10% increase in head injuries.
Research suggests that rotational force causes most of the fatal and disabling brain injuries in road crashes, but there is no assurance that cycle helmets can mitigate it. Indeed, there is some evidence that cycle helmets may increase it.
In all countries where helmet laws have been introduced and enforced, there has been a substantial reduction in cycle use [15]. Helmet promotion has also been shown to reduce cycle use [38]. Cycling has substantial health benefits [39] and people who cycle regularly live, on average, longer than non-cyclists with less illness and poor health [40]. Concern has therefore been expressed that any benefit from helmet wearing is outweighed by the loss of health benefits to those deterred from cycling. [Which is pretty relevant for me, personally... There are plans to make helmets legally obligatory here, and my neck is crappy beyond belief. I can't ride with a helmet, realistically.]
Helmeted cyclists have been shown to be more likely to hit their heads if they crash and may be more likely to crash in the first place [34]. The disproportionate number of helmet wearers who believe that a helmet has saved their life (see above) is further evidence that helmet use might adversely affect crash involvement or outcome.
There is a good deal of circumstantial evidence that helmeted cyclists are more likely to crash, and data from one study [4] suggests that those wearing a helmet are more than 7 times likely to hit their heads if they do.
Many falls result in arm and shoulder impacts that keep an unhelmeted head just clear of the ground. A helmeted head, being twice as big and a little heavier, is more likely to hit something
Cycle helmets fail catastrophically, not gradually, so it is a mistake to believe that they provide useful, if reduced, protection at higher velocities
This looks like the most thorough and scientific analysis of the issue by a long way. Don't dismiss it with "I crashed last week and my helmet saved my life" or "A friend of my died when he crashed without a helmet" Your anecdotal evidence < scientific research and statisitcal data of 2 billion or so people. See this: https://www.cyclehelmets.org/mf.html?1019
Let the fun begin!
BTW, the graph at https://www.cyclehelmets.org/ is a real eye-opener. Cyclists crash because motorists aren't used to them and don't take care of them. I don't know how the Dutch do 108% of their trips by bike, but it sure helps. The US leads the list of cyclist deaths per distance. Ewww
Last edited by LóFarkas; 08-23-06 at 03:23 AM.
08-23-06 | 04:08 AM
#2
(((Fully Awake)))
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: ~Serenading with sensous soliloquies whilst singing supple sentences that are simultaneously suppling my sonnets with serenity serendipitously.~ -Serendipper
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I wear a helmet when I freeride deep off in the woods. A full face, usually.
I find the one place where there is skin left after a nasty stack is my head. Do the math.
Riding road is generally less precarious, but when I'm going over 25 mph, I can only imagine the dire consequences. The last time I crashed on pavement at speed, I wore a lid.
I could hear the sound of my head scraping the pavement. It sounded like the ocean.
I find the one place where there is skin left after a nasty stack is my head. Do the math.
Riding road is generally less precarious, but when I'm going over 25 mph, I can only imagine the dire consequences. The last time I crashed on pavement at speed, I wore a lid.
I could hear the sound of my head scraping the pavement. It sounded like the ocean.
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無上甚深微妙法 .... 百千萬劫難遭遇..... 我今見聞得受持
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無上甚深微妙法 .... 百千萬劫難遭遇..... 我今見聞得受持
08-23-06 | 04:09 AM
#3
i don't stop
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,058
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From: basel, switzerland
Bikes: soma rush, giro
i think its all about how you twist the numbers, but it also depends on
a ton of variables. example: i don't wear a helmet while riding here in
europe, except when in some races, but if i were in a big city in the states,
i'd probably ...probably wear a helmet. because i know in the states, for
the most part, less attention is given to cyclists.
also, alot of these articles are geared towards commuter and road cycling
situations. when i ride off-road i wear a helmet because i know that most
crashes usually aren't as bad as getting hit by a car and landing on asphalt,
but are enough to still do damage to my head.
a ton of variables. example: i don't wear a helmet while riding here in
europe, except when in some races, but if i were in a big city in the states,
i'd probably ...probably wear a helmet. because i know in the states, for
the most part, less attention is given to cyclists.
also, alot of these articles are geared towards commuter and road cycling
situations. when i ride off-road i wear a helmet because i know that most
crashes usually aren't as bad as getting hit by a car and landing on asphalt,
but are enough to still do damage to my head.
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velospace
08-23-06 | 05:13 AM
#5
fuelled by vodka
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 151
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From: London
Bikes: Serotta Nove, Bob Jackson Pista, Cannondale CAA8
The answer is: Yes if you have an accident that involves your head hitting something. No if you have an accident in which your head hits nothing but any other part of your body hits something.
Helmets, I wear one sometimes, not at other times, it's a whim according to whether I think my environment (rush hour London) or cycling (racing or fast downhills) might warrant a helmet, and not when I think my leisurely pace reduces risk.
They aren't a lifesaver if you're going to be hit by a truck, the false sense of security they give new cyclists is probably the biggest problem with them... oh, and they never look good, on anyone, period.
Helmets, I wear one sometimes, not at other times, it's a whim according to whether I think my environment (rush hour London) or cycling (racing or fast downhills) might warrant a helmet, and not when I think my leisurely pace reduces risk.
They aren't a lifesaver if you're going to be hit by a truck, the false sense of security they give new cyclists is probably the biggest problem with them... oh, and they never look good, on anyone, period.
08-23-06 | 05:18 AM
#6
Murder Face Crew
Joined: Apr 2006
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I am of the opinion of full face or don't bother.
On the streets I don't wear a helmet anymore. When I did wear a helmet I wrecked bad enough that it caved in my biking helmet but broke my back. This certainly would fall into the "it saved my life" anecdote, but I don't know that I would say that actually. It may have only saved me some stitches.
I have wrecked and been hit this last year on the streets with no helmet. Once was bad enough that I was knocked out briefly, and freaked me out for a moment that I fractured my skull; but I didn't. Essentially I dont wear a helmet because I feel the trade off of my comfort, concentration and agility for the possibly illusory increase in safety is not a good deal.
In my personal experience, I feel that my serious to fatal injuries will not be avoided by some styrofoam. That they would likely be from actually getting crushed or spinal damage.
I would not presume to say they aren't a good investment and practice for some, but they aren't for me. I would hope that I am not subjected to a law requiring their use.
On the streets I don't wear a helmet anymore. When I did wear a helmet I wrecked bad enough that it caved in my biking helmet but broke my back. This certainly would fall into the "it saved my life" anecdote, but I don't know that I would say that actually. It may have only saved me some stitches.
I have wrecked and been hit this last year on the streets with no helmet. Once was bad enough that I was knocked out briefly, and freaked me out for a moment that I fractured my skull; but I didn't. Essentially I dont wear a helmet because I feel the trade off of my comfort, concentration and agility for the possibly illusory increase in safety is not a good deal.
In my personal experience, I feel that my serious to fatal injuries will not be avoided by some styrofoam. That they would likely be from actually getting crushed or spinal damage.
I would not presume to say they aren't a good investment and practice for some, but they aren't for me. I would hope that I am not subjected to a law requiring their use.
08-23-06 | 05:36 AM
#7
cab horn
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 28,353
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From: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet
Ok i'm done. Having said all that, wearing a helmet is your own personal decision unless you decide to ride with insured clubs and/or race.
Generally it also doesn't take into consideration rider experience. The less experienced cyclists are the ones that crash the most or at the risk of getting hit by vehicles.
Although the link is not causal it is observed that the countries with the best cycle safety records (Denmark and the Netherlands) have among the lowest levels of helmet use. Their bicycle safety record is generally attributed to public awareness and understanding of cyclists, education, and to some extent separation from motor traffic.
A further source of contention is the apparent arbitrariness of cycle helmet promotion and/or compulsion. Ordinary cycling is not demonstrably more dangerous than walking or driving[32]
Detailed analysis of hospital admissions data also fails to support the idea that cycling is unusually dangerous: a study in the UK found that the proportion of cyclist injuries which are head injuries is lower than the proportion for pedestrians at 30.0% vs. 30.1%.
helmets are not designed to withstand motor vehicle impacts, but these account for most serious and almost all fatal cyclist injuries
While a helmet may mitigate the effects of a fall or collision, other factors (such as maintenance, road conditions, and driver behaviour) are more important for reducing the chance of such accidents in the first place. In general, the value of bicycle helmets[ has been systematically overstated [29].
Cycle helmet promotion or high levels of use may deter cycling by reinforcing the misconception that bicycling is more dangerous than traveling by passenger car
Cycle helmet use correlates inversely with the level of cycling in a given country. Official zeal for cycle helmets is greatest where cycling is a minority activity.
Generally it also doesn't take into consideration rider experience. The less experienced cyclists are the ones that crash the most or at the risk of getting hit by vehicles.
Last edited by operator; 08-23-06 at 05:50 AM.
08-23-06 | 05:36 AM
#8
I always wear one out of habit.
Two years ago, I was riding by myself in a state park during the off season. I was on a flat, grassy trail, and no, I don't have a better story. What happened next, I can't tell you. I do know that I crashed hard...hard enough to get knocked out for a little over an hour, break the rear 1/4 of my helmet, and break my scapula. I somehow managed to make it 10 miles back to my friends place, and she took me to the hospital. I would say the helmet did a good job, and that is why I wear one.
Two years ago, I was riding by myself in a state park during the off season. I was on a flat, grassy trail, and no, I don't have a better story. What happened next, I can't tell you. I do know that I crashed hard...hard enough to get knocked out for a little over an hour, break the rear 1/4 of my helmet, and break my scapula. I somehow managed to make it 10 miles back to my friends place, and she took me to the hospital. I would say the helmet did a good job, and that is why I wear one.
08-23-06 | 05:49 AM
#9
Thread Starter
LF for the accentdeprived
Joined: May 2005
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From: Budapest, Hungary
Originally Posted by buro9
The answer is: Yes if you have an accident that involves your head hitting something. No if you have an accident in which your head hits nothing but any other part of your body hits something.
The answer (well, one answer) is: the helmet may cause your head to hit something, and if the crash is really serious, it's pretty much useless.
08-23-06 | 06:25 AM
#10
hell's angels h/q e3st ny
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: boston area/morningside heights manhattan
Bikes: surly steamroller, independent fabrication titanium club racer, iro jamie roy--44/16, independent fabrication steel crown jewel--47/17, surly karate. monkey (rohloff speed hub), unicycle
i would be dead without a helmet. one incident and you are dead.
08-23-06 | 06:50 AM
#12
Bulldozer
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: NYC
I wear one because I got spooked in a crash I had last year. I wasn't going very fast, but I took all the impact directly on my (helmetless) head and ended up with a concussion and spent the night in the ER.
Also, I fractured my skull eight years ago, which took many neurosurgeries to correct, so I figure that my head is probably fragile enough as it is. Is the helmet going to protect me if I get crushed by a garbage truck? Nope. Would it have saved me some pain and hassle in my minor crash? Probably.
Also, I fractured my skull eight years ago, which took many neurosurgeries to correct, so I figure that my head is probably fragile enough as it is. Is the helmet going to protect me if I get crushed by a garbage truck? Nope. Would it have saved me some pain and hassle in my minor crash? Probably.
08-23-06 | 07:10 AM
#13
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
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From: Savage Germanic Cults of Saskatchewan
I'll wear mine if I'm racing, on a club ride, or riding off road, but otherwise, it stays in the closet. It's not going to save me from a collision with some big a*$ SUV. I've seen some people who should definitely be wearing them, maybe even 24/7.
08-23-06 | 07:24 AM
#14
aka mattio
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,586
Likes: 58
Bikes: yes
Originally Posted by brunop
i would be dead without a helmet. one incident and you are dead.
do helmets work?
well, i don't have a soft spot on my skull. so...
08-23-06 | 07:26 AM
#16
cycling n00b
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: West Coast of Finland
Bikes: EAI Brassknuckle fixed Sannino fixed, Thorn Club Tour, Soma Smoothie
After ending a 30ft flight with a crash landing on the back of my head, I say yes, helmets work. I sure wouldn't want those cracks in my head.
08-23-06 | 07:36 AM
#20
FG 48x17
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 289
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From: El 'Burque, NM
Bikes: Lemond Road, IRO Rob Roy, Rush Hour Fixie
I wear one because it's required to ride on the installation I work on, the club I ride in, and the races I ride in.
Plus, I'm a father, and if it increases my odds of getting back to my family by even a fraction of a percent when some bad **** happens out on the road, it's worth it. Most of the reasons that call into question helmet use (makes cycling seem dangerous, distracts people, makes you more likely to crash, etc) apply to people in general (society) but not individuals who are experienced riders.
That being said, I'm also a liberatarian, so make your own damn decision.
But don't be one of those people who ride around with the helment on thier handlebars instead of thier head - that's just dumb.
Plus, I'm a father, and if it increases my odds of getting back to my family by even a fraction of a percent when some bad **** happens out on the road, it's worth it. Most of the reasons that call into question helmet use (makes cycling seem dangerous, distracts people, makes you more likely to crash, etc) apply to people in general (society) but not individuals who are experienced riders.
That being said, I'm also a liberatarian, so make your own damn decision.
But don't be one of those people who ride around with the helment on thier handlebars instead of thier head - that's just dumb.
08-23-06 | 07:39 AM
#21
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: birmingham
Bikes: a tvt soon to become a s/s...
1: statistics and the way they are used [most of the time] are social engineering.
unless you know how to twist them yourself, i wouldn;t take *too much* stock in them.
2: define 'work' in terms of a cycle helmet.
if it involves going over the bars are <20mph, they're probably going to get the protection you need to avoid talking with a speak and spell for the rest of your life. if it involves a bus running over your face, i'm not sure anything would save you.
the things to bear in mind are: everyone crashes, and cycle helmets are designed for a purpose
with respect to veryone crashing, a certain amount of non-luck is involved. people have walked away from 40 or 50mph crashes on the tdf with a bit of skin missing. i broke my shoulder tripping off a curb. when it comes to breaking bones and other parts, there are so many variables that it's quite difficult to predict with any accuracy the outcome of those events.
when it come to helmets, their designs have limits- ie. protection from [relatively] light imacts, with plenty of cooling at a light weight.
if you're not comfortable with that amount of protection, -given the unpredictability of crashing and its outcomes- id say the worst thing you could do would be to ditch the helmet. get a moto-cross helmet if you really want, just bear that it still has design limits, and those probably still don't involve a face vs. bus scenario.
fsnl
sparky
unless you know how to twist them yourself, i wouldn;t take *too much* stock in them.
2: define 'work' in terms of a cycle helmet.
if it involves going over the bars are <20mph, they're probably going to get the protection you need to avoid talking with a speak and spell for the rest of your life. if it involves a bus running over your face, i'm not sure anything would save you.
the things to bear in mind are: everyone crashes, and cycle helmets are designed for a purpose
with respect to veryone crashing, a certain amount of non-luck is involved. people have walked away from 40 or 50mph crashes on the tdf with a bit of skin missing. i broke my shoulder tripping off a curb. when it comes to breaking bones and other parts, there are so many variables that it's quite difficult to predict with any accuracy the outcome of those events.
when it come to helmets, their designs have limits- ie. protection from [relatively] light imacts, with plenty of cooling at a light weight.
if you're not comfortable with that amount of protection, -given the unpredictability of crashing and its outcomes- id say the worst thing you could do would be to ditch the helmet. get a moto-cross helmet if you really want, just bear that it still has design limits, and those probably still don't involve a face vs. bus scenario.
fsnl
sparky
08-23-06 | 07:42 AM
#22
coasterbrakelockup
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: parts unknown
Bikes: surly steamroller w/coaster brake, electra single speed cruiser, specialized rockhopper commuter, no-name single speed folder, 700c ultimate wheel, 24" unicycle, specialized bmx lsd, single seat single speed huffy tandem, pink upsidedown parade bike
I wear a helmet when walking or driving. Or sitting.
That way when I take it off to ride a bike I'm all WOOOOOOOO!!!!!
That way when I take it off to ride a bike I'm all WOOOOOOOO!!!!!
08-23-06 | 07:55 AM
#23
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 83
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From: Harrisburg, PA
Bikes: 198? Raleigh Technium
If the horse is dead, who cares? A few year's ago (1998-1999) I was enjoying a nice steep downhill in town when my ride partner failed to point out a large rock in the roadway. I have no idea how fast I was going when I hit the pavement, but I actually blacked out for 3-5 minutes. My left hip, knee, elbow, etc were all pretty much useless for days, but my head was fine very shortly after I came to. I haven't had a crash since then, and often consider tossing my helmet, but then I think about that 3 minute black out and wear it anyway.
08-23-06 | 08:19 AM
#24
cab horn
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 28,353
Likes: 30
From: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
My left hip, knee, elbow, etc were all pretty much useless for days, but my head was fine very shortly after I came to.
08-23-06 | 08:25 AM
#25
roll'em high
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,391
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From: columbus, ohio
the claim that helmet wearing actually increases the likelihood of crashing and sustaining head injuries is very interesting to me.
the problem is that it's very tricky to figure out the causal relationship -- correlation itself does not imply causation. it could be, as the article/study seems to claim, that there is something about having a helmet on that makes you crash and hit your head more often. maybe the helmet makes your head heavier and thus more likely to hit pavement when you crash. however, it is also very possible that helmets themselves don't cause more head injuries -- that the positive correlation between helmet use and head injuries is actually due to some additional factor. for example, it could be that helmets are more often worn by inexperienced riders. or, maybe helmets just seem to make riders ride more carelessly due to a false sense of safety. if either of these are true (i'm not saying that they are), then it's some characteristic of the rider that is ultimately responsible for the positive correlation. here, it is the fact that the riders are less skilled at riding and haphazard that is responsible for the crash, not the helmet. it's very possible that there is some characteristic of a rider that both makes him/her more likely to wear a helmet and more likely to crash.
importantly, and obviously, if it's an "external cause" sort of situation, then the argument simply doesn't hold because one isn't in any position to postulate on the efficacy of helmets. inexperienced riders are always going to be more likely to crash, helmet or not. among those riders, it may be the case that head injuries are mitigated by wearing helmets. as for the situation in which a rider becomes less careful when riding with a helmet, the remedy for that is clearly to get the rider to stop being a ****** just because (s)he's rocking a helmet. it wouldn't be to recommend taking off the helmet.
this all said, if it turns out that something about a helmet itself causes more head injuries (the weight /size or some visibility issue) -- i would need to see more studies to be convinced -- then, well, **** a helmet.
the problem is that it's very tricky to figure out the causal relationship -- correlation itself does not imply causation. it could be, as the article/study seems to claim, that there is something about having a helmet on that makes you crash and hit your head more often. maybe the helmet makes your head heavier and thus more likely to hit pavement when you crash. however, it is also very possible that helmets themselves don't cause more head injuries -- that the positive correlation between helmet use and head injuries is actually due to some additional factor. for example, it could be that helmets are more often worn by inexperienced riders. or, maybe helmets just seem to make riders ride more carelessly due to a false sense of safety. if either of these are true (i'm not saying that they are), then it's some characteristic of the rider that is ultimately responsible for the positive correlation. here, it is the fact that the riders are less skilled at riding and haphazard that is responsible for the crash, not the helmet. it's very possible that there is some characteristic of a rider that both makes him/her more likely to wear a helmet and more likely to crash.
importantly, and obviously, if it's an "external cause" sort of situation, then the argument simply doesn't hold because one isn't in any position to postulate on the efficacy of helmets. inexperienced riders are always going to be more likely to crash, helmet or not. among those riders, it may be the case that head injuries are mitigated by wearing helmets. as for the situation in which a rider becomes less careful when riding with a helmet, the remedy for that is clearly to get the rider to stop being a ****** just because (s)he's rocking a helmet. it wouldn't be to recommend taking off the helmet.
this all said, if it turns out that something about a helmet itself causes more head injuries (the weight /size or some visibility issue) -- i would need to see more studies to be convinced -- then, well, **** a helmet.