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Originally Posted by vinnydelnegro
sign me up for steel lugged frames by a smaller builder. we can all go to jacobs. his custom frames start at $850.
jacob@jacobsbicycles.com |
OK... this is cool... but we all live in different places... where will the order be shipped to? How will they be distributed? Do we set it up with the company to drop-ship them to each individual?
I nominate the Soma Delancey... or the Cochon at TBB. |
Originally Posted by BostonFixed
Don Walker often talked about $50 OEM frames, I bet you could do a large group buy for a frame similar to an iro/pake for under $150.
The idea is great. I'd soooo want a cheap ti frame. Sadly, I don't have the cash so I'm not in:( |
Ti frames are expensive
I actually have been researching this. Due to a request from a guy on RBR and due to my own attitude about CF for ATBs.
1 - you can find 'cheap' Ti frames in China - but I do not bring frames from China. Those frames cost about the same as a Carbon Fiber Frame. 2 - there is one super good Ti maker in Taiwan. I would say the same quality as Litespeed. However, their frames are twice the cost of a good CF frame. 3 - on direct purchases it is easy to get customers a super nice monocoque carbon frame for $399 -- but for the quality I would demand on Ti the price would be more like $799 I am still thinking of this for FLY cross-country mountain bikes; but mainly due to my beleif that falling on a rock with an ATB frame should not make you wonder if you will have a total frame failure in the next mile. I maybe testing this idea at Sea Otter Anyway, if enough people agreed on a quality Ti frame; I can make that happen as long as Taiwan is OK with everyone. I am not ready for China [or it is not ready for me, depending on your point of view] |
Taiwan is an excellent industrial resource. I'm 100% interested.
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Originally Posted by Serendipper
Taiwan is an excellent industrial resource. I'm 100% interested.
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I remember there was a guy at the trexlertown swap this fall from nyc making ti track frames (he had samples there and the quality looked good) for I think around 650 (not sure tho? and this might not have included a fork). I got his business card but who knows if I can find it again.
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oh and I'd be interested in the bareknuckle deal depending on the discount and my financial situation.
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I might be interested in bareknuckle.
I'd wanna stay steal |
Originally Posted by wheelsucker
****! Taiwan and their crap bikes. Buy American or build it yourself. If your going to spend good money support a local framebuilder...End of story
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Originally Posted by LóFarkas
But then he also talked about how the materials for a CF frame cost $20 so I wouldn't consider him an authentic source for anything outside of custom steel framebuilding done in Texas for senior trackracers.
The idea is great. I'd soooo want a cheap ti frame. Sadly, I don't have the cash so I'm not in:( carbon is cheap for big companies to make. they use the same molds for multiple sizes... Ti sounds sweet as hell though. |
i'm in on this if the frame and fork don't exceed $500
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Originally Posted by smurfy
I guessing local craft builders here in the USA usually work alone, building frames one at a time. Do you know how long it would take for the builder to produce 400, or even just 100 frames (and how much each individual one would cost?).
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Article from slowtwitch.com. Food for thought
The bike biz The juicy part: . You've got to get your frames made at a frame factory, because bike frames must be incredibly precise. It always makes me chuckle when I see somebody come into the bike biz from some "higher" industry, thinking that because he's been making car parts or tank turrets or airplanes or speedboats it's just got to be simpler making bikes. What these people don't realize is that the tolerances one must hold in this business are at least as close as as in just about any other industry. Consider this: I (when I was in the biz) would reject cranksets if the total runout exceeded one tenth of one millimeter at the large chainring. That means the bottom bracket, and the squarehole cut into the crank, must be absolutely perfect, and the crankarm absolutely straight. It means the metal must be sufficiently hard at that joint so as not to deflect under the heavily leveraged load applied at the pedal. Very, very hard to do. Likewise, frames are hard to make, if you want them to be straight. It's very hard to make a frame in which the rear wheel is centered inside the chainstays, and centered underneath the rear brake hole, and where the front and rear triangle are true to each other, and where the head tube is parallel to the seat tube. It's so hard to do that, that I've seen manufacturing companies that make very precision car parts just throw up their hands after years of trying to make frames and say, "It can't be done." |
Originally Posted by jacobpriest
carbon is cheap for big companies to make. they use the same molds for multiple sizes...
Ti sounds sweet as hell though. |
Originally Posted by LóFarkas
Yeah, framebuilders use the same jig for multiple bikes as well... WTF?
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Excellent discovery, my dear Watson. Hence "WTF?"
...perhaps I didn't get it because it didn't make sense. I'm talking about materials cost and you come in with building methods... my gut instinct tells me you're wrong as well. Or was it some strange irony?... I guess I still don't get it. |
Originally Posted by wheelsucker
Quality is worth the wait hands down. Yes, some frame builders do build alone, then again there are some who work with others. It may take the builder quite some time but at least I know the frame is AMERICAN and his or her family is fed. Cost? $$$ nothing more than what people already spend on njs second hand frames.
As for builders' families being fed, Taiwan has the 2nd highest income per capita in Asia. They also have universal health care. There aren't any more people going hungry there than in N.A.. If I could afford it, I'd buy Canadian, but it's not like standard high quality frames are made in Bangledesh. |
this is most interesting thread in a while for me. im digging on a lot of good ideas, but it seems to me for this to work we would need a lot of people behind one really good idea, just dont look at me, i like the idea of a nice lugged steel frame, or a affordable ti frame, or a cheap-o beater f-around frame. i am wondering how many orders it would take to get an existing brand like iro or soma or kogswell to run a new model? a group order would be worth it just for the banter in frame design and "how you set YOURS up" threads. it would be like a constructive interpretation of the bfssfg method. oh and count me in.
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I would definately like to see a cheapish steel lugged frame... I'm in if that's the case!
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Originally Posted by LóFarkas
Excellent discovery, my dear Watson. Hence "WTF?"
...perhaps I didn't get it because it didn't make sense. I'm talking about materials cost and you come in with building methods... my gut instinct tells me you're wrong as well. Or was it some strange irony?... I guess I still don't get it. building method being very cheap.... |
The roadie guys did it with Pedal Force, can't we just contact them and see what options they have for a track frame? The 550$USD frame that they got together on is a great deal I think, couldn't the same thing work for a track frame?
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Originally Posted by jet sanchEz
The roadie guys did it with Pedal Force, can't we just contact them and see what options they have for a track frame? The 550$USD frame that they got together on is a great deal I think, couldn't the same thing work for a track frame?
http://pedalforce.com/online/images/aeroblade1.jpg |
Hrm, too bad, that thing looks like it has potential. CF would be fun on the streets.
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Originally Posted by jacobpriest
building method being very cheap....
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This reminds me of that Redline 925 thread. Everybody wants something different... Ti, Al, Steele...that's assuming everybody's going to want a track frame, and has consensus on the geometry. I can also see the whole order getting screwed by flakey buyers/too few buyers.
But after factoring in stateside redistribution/shipping costs, possible import taxes, production oversight expenses, wouldn't it just be easier and cheaper to buy a Windosr Hour or bareknuckle something, which would probably be the bike you'd end up with? |
Originally Posted by moki
2nd hand NJS frames, except for maybe 3Renshos and Nagasawas, run $4-700, including a quality BB and HS. If you know of a builder who can even come close to that price, I'd like to know.
http://jacobsbicycles.com/ Here's another custom for $755. http://curtlo.com/pricing.html |
I'm not going to do it because if I do I'll buy one, but why doesn't somebody email EAI and just be like "how good of a price can you make us on 50 bareknuckles?"
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As far as steel goes though, it doesn't seem like there
is a shortage of quality NJS frames coming stateside, in fact the quanity only seems to be increasing. If you want steel, you can get it cheaper, and with an arguably better build quality than what you'd expect from Taiwan, by just going through Japan. |
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