Since I rebuilt my old Fuji road bike, I haven't ridden fixed
except at the track. Some train with a fixed cog, and riding
fixed could potentially help you in wet weather conditions,
but those are basically the only reasons I can see for riding
without a freewheel on the road. Being on a fixed-gear bike
year-round is like driving with snow tires on all summer long.

As for the "Zen" bull, most of that comes from bandwagon
jumpers who got their first non-Huffy bike back in August
and now think they're Theo Bos or something.

I know who Hugo Boss is, does that count?

Most of the stuff people say about riding fixed gear bikes just isn't true:

It makes you stronger/teaches you to spin: you pedal as sloppily as you otherwise would, except you can't coast, instead of learning to put power through all parts of the crank rotation. That might point out to you where your spin is dead and help you work on it, but it's the you working on it, not a fixed wheel that does it.

It makes you "more aware": like the above, this is only true if you were already unaware in the first place, and then it's a lazy aware, reacting to constant sudden death instead of riding in a way where other people's horrible mistakes and miscalculations are the only ones you have to worry about

You have better "traction": in slippery conditions, you have worse traction and speed control, assuming you ever ride in any conditions where you will hit spots where any pedal force will spin the wheel, whereas coasting allows you to "float" through a bit. Fixed gears don't help you here, but hurt you, but momentum and bike control ability do.

You can control your speed better than with a brake: same as all the above again I guess, except moreso, unless you just go really slow all the time, but I'll skip the ad infinitum brake arguments here

Singlespeeds have moving parts: Most of my bikes have been cheapo junk over the years, and riding year round in lousy conditions in a city with lousy roads, the only parts I've had suddenly fail were because of poor maintenance or hasty installation. That's a big your-mileage-may-vary, but I rode a way used (bought from someone who used it for ten years) lx freehub for years in snow and rain, and when it froze up, I took it apart to find the cones were majorly scored and the freehub needed to be oiled. Put it back together with lots of grease, and someone else is using it now. I've had more catastrophic fork failures or rear brakes locking because of snow and ice than a greased bearing-aided ratchet failing by about 5:1.

I do believe that fixed wheels help you in climbing unsteep grades that aren't very long (say half a kilometer or less?) in that you lose less momentum with less input required. I consider myself a strongish climber for an untrained/uncompetitive biker, and this was the first thing I really felt. Also, trackstands are easier on a fixed gear bike, but it's like hopping curbs or bunnyhopping - if you can do it, you can do it, it. I learned on a geared bike and can do it as long as I can on a fixed bike, just with more effort and rocking, but trackstanding is only useful or functional on a track, so that doesn't really count as an argument.

I also believe the fixed gear bikes are inherently much more dangerous when piloted by unskilled bike riders (as a large percentage I've seen have been), as they require more knowledge and ability and attention to ride as safely.

I ride fixed gear bikes (most of the time anyway) because it's fun. You can do weird stuff, like as I was coming up to my house, I figured it was slippery enough to climb off and stand on the left pedal and just skid through the snow to my door on one foot for like 20 feet. That's not functional, especially when you're doing it beside a picket fence. Or you can do the same when you're coming to a stop and just leave one foot clipped in and go up and down like a see saw for a revolution of the pedals. Come to think of it, that's pure function, if you're looking to look like a dork, which maybe is why I do it.

If this is a matter of buying something, I can't recomend more a disc hub. It's much less fuss, and works as a flip flop. It's something that I think will really take off. Lockrings are archaic. If you wanna go into it this much, get gears. Fixed and single speeds are fun to go out with on the weekend or after work but if you are riding as primary transportation, a good geared road bike is what's up. I love sprinting around, trying to tackle long grades and it's great. From the practical standpoint you're talking about however, yes it's light and there's not as much to repair/ replace, but the rate of failure really isn't that great. The weight isn't really an issue either. When it comes to the practical issues you wanna address, a freewheel or gears. But for fun and looks, fixed or a freewheel. Single speed is just the tiny overlap in the ven diagram of form vs. function. I know we all play roadie haters here on the board, but we all ride them in real life.

People here tend to exagerate the troubles with freewheels. They act like it requires hours a day of maintenence and they are so complex with so many moving parts, that you'll spend half your life keeping them in working condition. Except for a few people who might have had bad luck, its mostly a load of BS. BMX freewheels do not require much maintenence, and if they did, don't you think the BMX industry would do something about it?. I've been using them since I was 6 years old (I'm currently 34) and never had a problem with a single one of them, and I've been riding in the rain and snow with them regularly, ever since I had a paper route starting in the 6th grade. My current SS is a moutain bike that only gets ridden on mud, dirt, snow and salty slush. The Suntour and ACS freewheels (flip flop hub) on there have survived thousands of dirty miles. Freewheel bearings can get gritty inside, but the freewheel mechanism only spins when you are coasting, so the amount of internal wear and tear is pretty minimal, compared to, say, an unsealed hub, which spins constantly. However, I suspect those people reporting early freewheel death were running their chains too tight, so as they coasted they were literatlly grinding away the inner workings.

Practically speaking, the pros of fixed (IMHO):
One less brake to work with/worry about, etc.
Cogs are pretty simple
Easy trackstands

Cons:
Potential for stripping the hub if I'm lazy/stupid
Pedal strike
Toe overlap
Bunny hopping is harder
Harder to use single-sided clipless pedals (LOOK, etc.)
Difficult to explain to co-workers (I can slow down by resisting by the pedals... "Like a kid's bike?" No.)

It'd be difficult to come up with a serious practical advantage for fixed over ss apart from the ability to brake a bit better on very slippery roads. It is marginally more reliable but ss freewheels sort of work, too. The whole brakeless phenomenon is not a practical thing.

Mostly it's the fun of trackstands and speed modulation with your legs that drives people to fixed I think, plus the brakeless aesthetic.

I debated this here a while ago, and I can't remember the argument for this. Can you say why? I strongly disagree from my personal experience.

There is absolutely no doubt what so ever that you have more control on fixed gear bike. There is more force pushing down on the front end of the bike (try popping a wheelie). That force translates into traction and handling. It's mostly about the fun for me at least. I first rode a track bike in 1987 and always knew that I had to have one, they are special for sure. I agree w/ slvoid too in that I rarely have problems with any of my geared bikes. At least not as horrible as some people claim that geared bikes are so high maintenance. Even my cyclocross bikes that get raced hard every year just need a simple cleaning and oiling up.

If I had to ride a bike all day for work I think I'd prefer the SS. Sometimes you need to take a break. YMMV

worst argument ever.

I get better traction on fixed in the winter & with experienced legs you can experience greater traction control in slippery conditions. Winter is the only time I would prefer a fixed over any other bike for practical or performance reasons. The drive train can't be stopped by ice build up, whereas a freewheel can freeze & gets chewed inside by salt grit & a derailleur can get shot to hell & back by ice in no time. Pissing on your derailleur to get moving again to meet your deadlines is a stupid feeling.

Beyond that it's not a "vs" Silly question altogether.

ieatrats, I agree with you that the "freewheels are less reliable argument" isn't THAT big a deal, but it should be pointed out freewheels and freehubs are a whole different animal. I've seldom had any trouble with freewheels except on my winter snow and slush bikes. salty water gets in there and destroys freewheels pretty quick. flushing em out regularly with wd40, and chasing it with oil keeps em going for a winter.

Freehubs are sealed much better, and don't suffer much from this kind of abuse. If I didn't love the hubs on my winter beater so much I'd trade in the back one for a freehub next winter, but I think it's just going to get rebuilt with SS spokes.

that's hard core

I dunno what you disagree with but here's tha actual truth:
1)For stopping a bike on dry roads, a front brake is best; incomparably better than skidding the rear.
2)Now that that's out of the way, here goes for icy roads etc: Fixed will work even if the rim is iced over and everything is packed with snow, and you get a very fine feel for what your rear wheel is doing. So you run less of a risk of wiping out because you don't notice that your rear wheel is skidding (could happen with a caliper brake). I think that feathering the front brake and backpedaling is the best (not that I ride a lot in the winter...)

you feel more in control.

and better for sh*tty weather conditions.

and also, as others mentioned, its easier to maintain a consistent velocity

This arguement is as absurd as the ones that claim you can climb better fixed because it creates more momentum.

The force pushing down on your wheels is you. Do you weight more when riding fixed? Maybe you have a hard time popping a wheelie because you fixie is geared to high. It you want to pop a wheelie, by definition, the force pushing down on your front wheel must be negative, or its never going to leave the ground.

So you don't agree that you have better traction and control? Or are you saying that you disagree that it's a good argument for fixed vs freewheel?

I don't agree that you have better traction and your argument for why you do is the most non-sensical one yet(and that is saying alot.)

-weight distribution is determined by geometry not drive train.
-Wheelie ease is determined by gearing, geometry and possibly suspension.
-even if it was as you say weight distributed over the front wheel is worse for traction in most situations.
-Drive train has no bearing on traction, weight distribution, tires and the ground do.

IMHO only, I think that so much of the 'zen' aspect/arguements for fixed comes from people who jumped on the bandwagon and try to hide that fact by being a snob about it, and instead of listening and thinking about what people have to say who may disagree with their opinions, just drink the PBR and recite the party line. The whole brakeless is better is stupid in my mind, I have a front brake and would never ride fixed without one, except on a track I suppose.

I love riding fixed, I enjoy the ease of it, I also love riding my 27 geared bad boy. For winter I like the fixed bike, mainly because of the durability aspects, I dont want to ruin the rims, cassette and deraileurs on my c-dale, and my surly hub has cartridge bearings and I don't have to worry about trashing them from the salt sludge in T.O. roads.

Not that his argument made any sense, but your argument doesn't make any sense either.

When you wheelie all the weight is on the rear wheel. The geometry of the bike obviously doesn't change (unless you're riding a transformer). You also can't wheelie without driving the wheels. Therefore, the weight distribution must depend on the drive train.

This is your only valid point and the reason why his argument doesn't make any sense.

This can't possibly be true. Maximal traction is achieved by maintaining static friction between the tires and the ground (ie not skidding). Additional feedback to the rider helps the rider to maintain static friction. A drivetrain that kicks back provides additional feedback to the rider. Therefore, drivetrain does have a bearing on traction.

For the engineers out there, it's the difference between an openloop and a closedloop control system.

Now, whether or not this feedback affects traction significantly is a different story, but it definitely affects traction.

Maybe my argument is wrong but it certainly feels to me that the fixed gear forces the front down. And I wasn't saying that it puts all your weight on the front and that improves traction I was saying (or trying to say) that it distributes traction evenly by moving more to the front. We'll just have to disagree but IMO regardless of the physics if you don't think you have better control on a fixed gear then you really have no idea what you are talking about or you don't know how to ride.

Right you weight is over the rear wheel during a sustained wheelie. However, geometry determines weight distribution(in relation to the bike) which determines how far you have to tip the bike back to achieve this and that determines how hard it is to wheelie.(assuming gearing and suspension are kept constant). The drive train may actually affect how hard it is to maintain the wheelie but that is a different issue.



Accepting your definition, here is where your inexperience with fixies is apparent. When pedaling forward you have just as much feedback regarding traction fixed as free. When backpedaling you do indeed have more feedback but it is coupled with the inability to apply an even force to rear wheel.(remember what I told you in your folding thread.)

But the problem is even more fundamental then that. Traction is not as you define it. If it was abses and tcses in cars would improve traction. They don't they improve what the car does with the same amount traction by controlling the car more finely then any human could.

The physics are key here though. Everything else is you just asserting that you feel like you have more control which only means that you've drunken of the fg koolaid of irrationality.

Reasonably at best you can say that a fixed gear allows for a different type control and more feedback

-A brake can apply more force to the rear wheel
-A brake can apply more even force to the rear wheel
-A brake allows for fine modulation of the force on the rear wheel unrelated to shifting weight.
-A freewheel allows you much more ability to shift(or not shift) your weight around on the bike therefore more control.
-A freewheel
+A fixed cog give you more feedback as to whether the wheel is slipping or not.

With the exception of the last thing everything about a freewheel + brake give you better "control" over the bike. Maybe it's just the(admittedly short) lifetime of mtbing I have behind me but I never need feedback from the wheel to tell if it's slipping or not.

I ride fixed pretty much all the time. I don't know about you guys, but when I"m really cruising at a high cadence, and suddenly the road becomes super bumpy or pot holed or whatever, I feel way out of control. In this situation, I'd so much rather have a free hub and float over the problem spot.

And as far as climbing goes, yes, on short not-too-steep climbs, fixed will feel easier and outperform most others. But there is no way I want to take a fixed gear up a real mountain, especially against a bunch of in-shape roadies with good gear. Don't go making blanket statements about how great one can climb on a fixed. Remember, they are designed for use on the track....don't usually see hills on the track.