dutret

Wanting your bike to look good since it already performs is changing the color of the bar tape or getting a fancy seatpost. Buying a hed3 for tricks or daily riding is being an ostentatious wasteful peice of ****.

Jenkinsal2

Shut the **** up... Let it go man

dutret

My critique is that their bikes main function is ostentation and they are barely a step above yuppies in hummers. The core values are the same only the resources they're wasting aren't as important. Abusing fragile racing stuff that is in a limited supply like classic track frames and used aero wheels so you can look cool makes you a piece of ****. Its no wonder that so many of these jokers used to be into shoes or some other almost purely consumerist hobby. At least then they weren't effecting stuff I cared about then.

queerpunk

aw, people, this thread's gotten ridiculous again.

G60

welcome to america, don't like it, move someplace where people don't have the freedom to be ostentatious wasteful pieces of ****.

what's up, you scared of things that are different?

91MF

i come from a car modifying background and i dont see a problem with putting fancy/expensive lightweight race wheels on anything for form OR function. its the choice of the driver/rider. i have lightweight aluminum wheels with brake cooling fins on my 68hp diesel jetta. i put them on there because they are cool TO ME, follow?

thiskidgotmoxie

Wasteful and ostentatious are pretty weak critiques. One doesn't make much sense (more frames and wheels can be produced) and the other is a moral judgement based on subjective understandings of appropriateness (the idea that people who value aesthetics above utilitarian concerns are shallow, etc.).

dutret

Good for you. As despicable as car modifying culture is it's not really applicable here. Very few people actually race cars and very few of the improvements that can easily be switched from car to car would make a huge difference at a scca event. With bikes the price of used aero wheels has skyrocketed. And these make a huge difference to even a midrange racer like myself. The abused classics may have some sort of analog with cars. How would you feel about a 240z(insert not insanely rare but still classic car of your choice) in a demolition derby?

dutret

No more classic frames can not be produced and the amount of currently available affordable used wheels is fixed. First aesthetics are fleeting and subjective especially in a culture where the are driven almost entirely by the expense/rarity of an object. In this case the aesthetic becomes interchangeable with ostentation and should not be viewed and the questionable value of beauty but rather the disgusting value of ostentation. Are you argueing that ostentation is a value that we should respect?

thiskidgotmoxie

So, just to clarify, you only have a problem with "prolly and his ilk" when they 1) use classic frames in certain ways and not in others, 2) when they inflate the prices that you have to pay for second hand equipment, and 3) when they are ostentatious, something which you define as endowing something with aesthetic value only because it is expensive/rare?

91MF

point taken on the interchangebility[real word?], and though i understand your frustration with the inflated pricing of aero wheels i dont really feel that just because you would use the wheel for its intended purpose you are entitled to ownership of said wheel over tightpants/haircut/barspinz guy. its like as a VAG[no not THAT vag] technician and long time VW enthusiast i am more entitled to a mint set of 3-piece BBS wheels then some youngster who pays to build his car.

i hope the owner enjoys themself in the demo-derby.

middy

This is cool. Are you going to start talking about dialectical materialism?

RichPugh

I gotta tell you, I'm with 91MF (and several others) on this one...

There are more people riding track/fixed gear bikes for casual commuting/tricks/pleasure/showing off now-a-days than there ever was. The fixed gear/track bike "culture" has created a sub-culture within it self and is now 'one in the same' (or as similar as it gets) to todays culture of modifying cars, especially when comparing it to putting "lightweight aluminum wheels with brake cooling fins on my 68hp diesel jetta".

People are putting aerospoke sets on rattle-canned craigslist bikes with vertical dropouts because thats just what they do now. Just as people are putting $3000 3pc BBS wheels on shi+box VW's because its just come to that these days (disclaimer: I do not consider a 68hp Deisel Jetta a shi+box).

I'm a long time VW/Audi tuning guy... I've drag raced (not competitively, for fun... but have won awards), auto-X'd (not competitively, for fun... no awards), road raced (not competitively, for fun... no awards), entered car shows (not competitively, for fun... but have won awards), built project vehicles for magazine features, built purpose built vehicles for fun, built vehicles with excessive handling capabilities, horsepower and cosmetic enhancements for no other reason than to impress myself and get a few "Hell-yeah's" from my buddies...

ITS THE EXACT SAME THING WITH A BIKE.

I'm gonna buy whatever bike/frameset I want, spend whatever I want to spend on race-specific products to "upgrade/improve" it, have every opportunity to race it... and choose NOT to.

What I am hearing is, Dutret is saying "If you ride a track bike with track parts/wheels/etc, you should be required to race it, not just tinker around town and ride backwards circles and trackstand and rub it in track racers face that you have a Hed3 wheel(s) buy doing nothing but inflating the price of items better suited to people who will buy/use them for there intended use".

How far off am I?

Dutret, I'm not flaming you. I am a friggin' VW/Audi Snob. I seriously get offended when I see cars so poorly modded that I want to tell them they've gone horribly wrong and should just take a step back and look at the horrible contraption they've concocted. But, I cant get mad that a guy decided to run spherical bearing trailing arms and control arms (instead of poly or rubber bushings), non DOT braided brake lines, full chassis roll cage, a motorsport STACK instrument cluster dash, solid motor mounts or a DTM splitter... when he's never going to take it to a racetrack. I just cant be mad.

The majority of people building faux race bikes (or cars) are in a way, tipping their hat to you. They want to be like you but dont have the drive/desire/skills/balls to try to actually race it. I would say if I were in your shoes, I'd have a beer and take it as a compliment.

dutret

one can be disgusted by the conspicuous consumption without being a marxist.

1) Ways in which they(not just the frames) were not intended, where they will likely be destroyed and for which a different item would be more practical.
2) Pretty much
3) No but the process of doing that makes ostentation and striving for that aesthetic more or less identical.
4) They've taken something I enjoy and turned it into a show of status symbols.

If it makes you feel better I also despise the middle age guys rolling down the mup with 404s who can't glue their own tires and have to call for help when they get a flat. At least they are only spending a small portion of their disposable income on it however and 1/2 don't apply.

schnee

I'm with dutret, but only because I come from a small town on the east coast. We were friends with all sorts of people that were wealthy or rich, but you'd never know it because they drove modest cars and practical clothing.

Sure, you're free to peacock yourself up, go for it... and I'm free to laugh at you for the classless fool you are. Enjoy your $2,000 wheel on a trick bike fake status, I'll enjoy my maxed-out 401k and Roth IRA real status.

octopus magic

I can do that all day long.

They're called ricers/krauters/posers.

See the similarity with both forms of stupid bike posers and stupid car posers is that they are throwing a bunch of money at a problem that doesn't exist at their current skill level, and are also throwing money at something they don't fully understand, other than the fact that someone on a mesasgeboard/in person/wikked big meat told them it'd look "So tyte".

dutret

So you wouldn't be offended if that car was solmething moderately rare and then taken mudding? As i said before car tuning is not analogous. Very few people with fast cars race them compared with bikes and those modifications that greatly improve a car for racing yet don't make it more fun to drive in general are pretty rare and almost never easily removed and thrown on something entirely different. Most fgg bikes including anything with an aerospoke are more like the former than the later anyway.

Oh yeah I have basically no respect 99% of car tuning culture too. So I think I doubt this is going anywhere.

xxandyarmada

dutret, you just have some kind of grudge on, Prolly, he's probably said this, and you've probably ignored it, but, his sweet eddy merckx track frame, he doesn't even try tricks on it, because it's classic. The steamroller he rides was built around dealing with the street, and the obstacles that are common in it, but also to be track legal if need be. So it's not like he's really abusing the assigned uses of his bikes....
And if I recall correctly, he got that Hed3 for really ****ing cheap, so I don't think many of us would turn it down, and it was a 650 so why not do barspins?

RichPugh

You hit it on the head.

I laugh a lot at it. I'm guilty of it to an extent. One thing I can assure you of is I would never, for any reason, put a 5-point racing harness in a car which did not regularly require it at a track event. I got no problem with lots of vain "motorsport" mods but I draw the line at things like harness belts in a daily driver LOL. I also despise ostentatious displays or shift lights, tachometers or any other gauge which came in the car already!... I even refrained from mounting an external boost gauge on my last turbocharged car because the AVC-R boost controller already had a lovely digital boost gauge display which nicely hid in the closed glovebox LOL.


I guess I can see the frustration when I take that look at it.

thiskidgotmoxie

You despise them? Actually, I think that's pretty pathetic. You seem to have strong feelings about people who don't match up to your ideal typical model of the authentic cyclist. Plus, your answers are illustrative. 2 and 4 are purely selfish, and 4 is just silly. Why should it bother you that other people have taken something you enjoy and turned it into a show of status symbols? Are you somehow prevented from racing at the track because someone, somewhere is doing a leg-over skid in a parking lot? Do you enjoy racing at the track less because someone, somewhere is doing a bunny hop on a track bike? Also, you don't see a contradiction in your valuing a rare and classic track frame, but then denigrating someone for valuing a rare/expensive piece of equipment?

JayNev

lets get over the car talk, please. ug

jitensha!

your logic and well-reasoned arguments have no place in this thread, sir.

dutret

This only happened pretty recently. The prolly/dutret mutual dislike goes back to pictures he posted of him doing tricks on somethign pretty nice(I don't think it was a merkx though) and posting his bike with a near unrideable set up in "race mode." I've admitted the new bike is substantially more reasonable.

I despise most people whose values I find repugnant. And while I'm not prevented from racing I have been put at a serious disadvantage because of them. See the 3rd/16th post earlier. Such experiences really sour ones opinions on the type of **** bags being discussed.

RichPugh

LOL... I can respect you not having respect for 99% of the car tuning culture. At least the aftermarket wh0res, bloodsuckers and copycats, and the sheep that patronize and support it. I would have to assume you have some sort of respect for the real motorsport divisions of vehicle manufacturers who's vehicle sales are directly related to the standings of their various motorsport divisions... and in assuming so, I will use your example... as odd an example it is, since I cant compare anything the "trick fixie rider" doing to a rare track bike to "mudding" a moderately rare vehicle.

Is it that bad? If I were to compare it in your eyes, it would be like taking a factory prepped Porsche GT3 and converting it into a golfball picker machine at the driving range.

Is that how you perceive "trick fixie riders" desecrating these track bikes? Theyre riding their bikes that they paid great money for, in any way they deem enjoyable. Thats how most people see it... as odd as it might seem.

I guess youre right though.. I'd be PISSED if I saw a GT3 Porsche with 30 of the drunkest golfer wannabe's smacking golfballs into it. Id want to give it a better home where it would be loved for and cared for and nobody could ever hurt it again. I think you have a level of respect for the track bike and its intended use that most people just dont understand the hostility behind it. Hostility might be a strong word... The passion is fury fueled. It simply pains you to see these beautiful pieces of machinery used in ways you consider disrespectful and hap-hazard. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Do you also hate graffiti artists defacing beautifully clean walls and skateboarders ruining lovely granite ledges? (cheap shot... I shouldnt have )

dutret

most graf people seem to be complete and total ******bags anyway. There also seem to be more than random overlap between them and the worst fixed gear fad *******s too.