View Poll Results: What would you order?
Basic groupo
21
17.95%
build kit/groupo with upgrades
51
43.59%
full up build with wheels
45
38.46%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll
Who would be interested in a fixed gear build kit group buy?
03-15-07, 09:37 PM
#51
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Can we pleeeez do different hubs, pauls aren't compatible with sugino 75 unless you get some other bottom bracket. I also think they're not worth the money, but I don't want to start that fight.
03-16-07, 04:48 AM
#54
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just to let everyone know, i got a quote on deep-v laced with dt db spokes, alloy nipples, with a formula fix/fix hub and a front nexus dynohub with a disc mount, $310,
03-16-07, 04:54 AM
#55
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Ahh very good point...I hadn't thought of that.
He is specing an IRD BB at the moment, is that an issue for anyone?
The hub issue comes to what he can get from his suppliers...which seems to not be a lot in the higher end market...we are trying to do a mid-low wheel (the SoMax) and a high end wheel. What high end hubs would you suggest? Keep in mind that Record would be low flange and $100 more than a set of wheels with Pauls and the DA stuff is not an option. Hmm I will look into Phil Wood...but looking at their prices you are talking $40-$50 more for the set...I will ask/suggest though.
How much different is the Pauls setup? I am running Pauls hubs with a Sugino crankset on my Lanster and the chain line looks straight to me.
He is specing an IRD BB at the moment, is that an issue for anyone?
The hub issue comes to what he can get from his suppliers...which seems to not be a lot in the higher end market...we are trying to do a mid-low wheel (the SoMax) and a high end wheel. What high end hubs would you suggest? Keep in mind that Record would be low flange and $100 more than a set of wheels with Pauls and the DA stuff is not an option. Hmm I will look into Phil Wood...but looking at their prices you are talking $40-$50 more for the set...I will ask/suggest though.
How much different is the Pauls setup? I am running Pauls hubs with a Sugino crankset on my Lanster and the chain line looks straight to me.
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Last edited by Grasschopper; 03-16-07 at 05:47 AM.
03-16-07, 07:16 AM
#56
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Ok so the difference in chain line is 2mm between the Sugino cranks and the Pauls hubs. I have asked about Phils rather than Pauls...maybe I need to get a good production lathe and start making Johns...
Also looking into the cranks I keep gettign conflicting info. The Sugino site says that the 75 has a 42mm chain line with a 109mm BB that is ISO taper and that the RD has a 45mm chain line with a 103mm BB which is also ISO tapered. On other sites I see the RD listed as 42mm chain line with that 103mm BB and you can run a wider BB for the 45mm chain line. Some sites list the RD as JIS and the 75 as ISO, others list them both as JIS...Sugino lists them both as ISO. So is ISO and JIS the same (I didn't think so but...)?
Also looking into the cranks I keep gettign conflicting info. The Sugino site says that the 75 has a 42mm chain line with a 109mm BB that is ISO taper and that the RD has a 45mm chain line with a 103mm BB which is also ISO tapered. On other sites I see the RD listed as 42mm chain line with that 103mm BB and you can run a wider BB for the 45mm chain line. Some sites list the RD as JIS and the 75 as ISO, others list them both as JIS...Sugino lists them both as ISO. So is ISO and JIS the same (I didn't think so but...)?
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03-16-07, 07:32 AM
#57
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iso and jis are not the same. one will work on the other, but the size of tapers is different enough that i'd like to run iso with iso or jis with jis.
this discrepancy has been discussed on the board and most who own them seem to think that the sugino site is in fact incorrect, and that they have jis (standard shimano) tapers.(edit: some think that sugino's taper is neither iso nor jis)
this is something i'd like some verification on before i decide on ordering or not.
also, thanks for doing the legwork grasschopper. its much appreciated.
this discrepancy has been discussed on the board and most who own them seem to think that the sugino site is in fact incorrect, and that they have jis (standard shimano) tapers.(edit: some think that sugino's taper is neither iso nor jis)
this is something i'd like some verification on before i decide on ordering or not.
also, thanks for doing the legwork grasschopper. its much appreciated.
Last edited by dirtyphotons; 03-16-07 at 07:43 AM.
03-16-07, 08:02 AM
#60
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The mind-numbing awesomeness of formulas has kind of made mid-level track hubs a null issue, the only other thing that's really in the middle price range is Miche Primatos, though there may be something I'm not thinking of. Other than that, you have to go up to phil, campy, dura ace (which for some reason nobody on here likes much), etc...
I'll let other people who know more lay down the complete story on what BB works with which suginos, but I can say that while I think they're fine, IRD bottom brackets are not going to do it for people on here.
Are the hubs on the Somax wheels dimensions? They don't look look like the regular soma hubs.
I'll let other people who know more lay down the complete story on what BB works with which suginos, but I can say that while I think they're fine, IRD bottom brackets are not going to do it for people on here.
Are the hubs on the Somax wheels dimensions? They don't look look like the regular soma hubs.
03-16-07, 08:17 AM
#61
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Originally Posted by Landgolier
The mind-numbing awesomeness of formulas has kind of made mid-level track hubs a null issue, the only other thing that's really in the middle price range is Miche Primatos, though there may be something I'm not thinking of. Other than that, you have to go up to phil, campy, dura ace (which for some reason nobody on here likes much), etc...
I'll let other people who know more lay down the complete story on what BB works with which suginos, but I can say that while I think they're fine, IRD bottom brackets are not going to do it for people on here.
Are the hubs on the Somax wheels dimensions? They don't look look like the regular soma hubs.
I'll let other people who know more lay down the complete story on what BB works with which suginos, but I can say that while I think they're fine, IRD bottom brackets are not going to do it for people on here.
Are the hubs on the Somax wheels dimensions? They don't look look like the regular soma hubs.
I am being told Miche isn't an option with his supliers...so no Miche, which is a bit of a bummer because I was wanted that full kit myself but if we get a good enough deal on the 75 then no issue for me. The more I look at it the Sugino cranks must be JIS as I have found 2 more web sites that list both the RD and 75 that way and they are more major sites.
I have asked for info on the SoMax wheels as even the Soma site doesn't give much info. Doing a formula hub laced to a rim of choice is I believe an option but it will cost more than the SoMax wheelset because the vendor will be hand building them himself.
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03-16-07, 08:33 AM
#62
Senior Member
Would it be possible to get an unbuilt wheelset? Like, a hub/rim combo with spokes cut the right length for whatever lacing pattern? It could save the dude some time and effort and save us some money on labor.
03-16-07, 08:42 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by delicious
Would it be possible to get an unbuilt wheelset? Like, a hub/rim combo with spokes cut the right length for whatever lacing pattern? It could save the dude some time and effort and save us some money on labor.
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03-16-07, 08:49 AM
#64
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Originally Posted by Grasschopper
Yea I was sort of concerned about the IRD BB but looking into them they seem to be very good quality...I will suggest maybe the IRD for the RD crankset and the Sugino 75 for the 75 crankset and see what they say.
I am being told Miche isn't an option with his supliers...so no Miche, which is a bit of a bummer because I was wanted that full kit myself but if we get a good enough deal on the 75 then no issue for me. The more I look at it the Sugino cranks must be JIS as I have found 2 more web sites that list both the RD and 75 that way and they are more major sites.
I have asked for info on the SoMax wheels as even the Soma site doesn't give much info. Doing a formula hub laced to a rim of choice is I believe an option but it will cost more than the SoMax wheelset because the vendor will be hand building them himself.
I am being told Miche isn't an option with his supliers...so no Miche, which is a bit of a bummer because I was wanted that full kit myself but if we get a good enough deal on the 75 then no issue for me. The more I look at it the Sugino cranks must be JIS as I have found 2 more web sites that list both the RD and 75 that way and they are more major sites.
I have asked for info on the SoMax wheels as even the Soma site doesn't give much info. Doing a formula hub laced to a rim of choice is I believe an option but it will cost more than the SoMax wheelset because the vendor will be hand building them himself.
03-16-07, 09:49 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by Landgolier
See, this is the problem. You can't do a sugino 75 with the 75 BB and run a paul hub, unless you want to put a spacer on there. Can your guy get paul cranks? People are in love with those.
On the other hand if the IRD BB is acceptable (for the Sugino 75) the price will be less and a 113mm BB would bring the chain line in line.
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Last edited by Grasschopper; 03-16-07 at 10:03 AM.
03-16-07, 12:12 PM
#66
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- tks for the legwork! i'm gonna track this thread for sure...
p.s. have almost 2,000 miles on 560s you sent down here!
p.s. have almost 2,000 miles on 560s you sent down here!
03-16-07, 12:20 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by linux_author
- tks for the legwork! i'm gonna track this thread for sure...
p.s. have almost 2,000 miles on 560s you sent down here!
p.s. have almost 2,000 miles on 560s you sent down here!
I haven't heard anything today from the vendor I was working with...but out of the blue I heard back from a vendor I emailed last week on this topic and they quickly made a groupo offer. Now I am a bit torn as the first dealer to respond was obviously much quicker to respond (I went to him after not hearing back for a couple days from the other place) and has put some work into this deal (web site design and contacting vendors) while the other dealer had a much easier path of just checking his cost since these are parts he carries every day.
I am thinking of maybe offering both and pairing the bigger picture deal down to just one option.
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03-16-07, 12:26 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by doofo
well if this is a group buy you have to have a group for both no
?
?
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03-16-07, 12:28 PM
#70
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i would do this... but there's already gonna be like 350 people riding around on the same frameset as i'll have. i'm not trying to ride an identical bike to everyone else's.
plus i already priced out all my components for my dream bike, and i have a birthday coming up soon.
plus i already priced out all my components for my dream bike, and i have a birthday coming up soon.
03-16-07, 12:30 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by delicious
Would it be possible to get an unbuilt wheelset? Like, a hub/rim combo with spokes cut the right length for whatever lacing pattern? It could save the dude some time and effort and save us some money on labor.
03-16-07, 12:36 PM
#72
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What do you guys consider a very good price on a hand built set of Phils laced to Mavic OPs or Velocity Deep Vs?
I am trying to get a handle on how good the prices he is telling me are going to be, obviously if the pricing isn't good no one is going to want to buy.
I am trying to get a handle on how good the prices he is telling me are going to be, obviously if the pricing isn't good no one is going to want to buy.
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03-16-07, 12:50 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by Grasschopper
What do you guys consider a very good price on a hand built set of Phils laced to Mavic OPs or Velocity Deep Vs?
I am trying to get a handle on how good the prices he is telling me are going to be, obviously if the pricing isn't good no one is going to want to buy.
I am trying to get a handle on how good the prices he is telling me are going to be, obviously if the pricing isn't good no one is going to want to buy.
03-16-07, 01:07 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by jeffremer
those wheels would last a lifetime.
03-16-07, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Grasschopper
What do you guys consider a very good price on a hand built set of Phils laced to Mavic OPs or Velocity Deep Vs?
I am trying to get a handle on how good the prices he is telling me are going to be, obviously if the pricing isn't good no one is going to want to buy.
I am trying to get a handle on how good the prices he is telling me are going to be, obviously if the pricing isn't good no one is going to want to buy.