me thinkst

dood, you can dent an aluminum frame just as easily (or easier), and the structure is then compromised.
aluminum has a fatigue lifespan (actually all materials do, but aluminum is short)

all materials have good properties and bad.

Pfutz

It weighs less than my steel frame, and its more rigid than my steel frame. It rides harsher but who cares.

roadfix

The Gallup Poll.

me thinkst

This may be true, a lightweight steel frame about 4.2 pounds, in aluminum 3.5. In carbon 2.5. choose your dollar level.

LóFarkas

Not at all. Say, a 1500g Al frame is pretty frickin' sturdy while a similar steel frame is... well, not. Of course, the lightest Al frames are also sensitive but there is no getting away from the fact that an Al frame that weighs x is stronger than a steel frame of comparable quality (let alone cost!) that also weighs x. Also, Al tubes have thicker walls (there is just more material) so they don't dent nearly as easily. Seriously, how many dented Al frames have you seen?

True, of course.

thebigmrT

i ride aluminum because the bike is light and stiff, not stiff just because it's aluminum, but stiff because my tubing is freakin huge!

oh yeah and my bike was backed into by a car that hopped the curb while trying to park and now it has this big dent in the top tube and ive been riding it for months with no problems at all

but i always say test ride and buy what you like

juvi-kyle

Alum...only way to go!

Grasschopper

Um dozens? Go to any group ride and have a look at the AL bikes...you will find dents I am sure.

Hell my Langster has a dent on the right seat stay...it is small and has no effect on the bike...but it is dented for sure.

me thinkst

plenty...
ever hear of crack-n-fail (cannondale)
simple fact is steel is waaaay more dent resistant than aluminum.
perhaps you're confused and are thinking aluminum is steel and steel is aluminum. beer comes in aluminum cans not steel. a can of beer made of steel (same wall thickness) would be 30x stronger than aluminum.

anyone got my back on this one?

yellowjeep

it was said for the benifit of the man from the road forums.

I would love to have a BH or Corima, and a drom closer than um, i guess chicago.

LóFarkas

Yeah, a 1" thick steel bar is stronger than a 1" Al bar... only the lightweight steel bike frame tubes are ridiculously thin. Ever heard of how Al is weaker but lighter than steel? So they just put more of the stuff into a bike and end up with bigger wall thickness. I thought this was pretty easy to understand.

me thinkst

plenty easy to understand.














you're so confused.

Natron

Whoa whoa.. I think some are taking the idea that the resulting frame can have almost any properties the frame builder wants regardless of frame material to mean that the base materials themselves have little to no differences. HUUUGE differences there.

Aluminum is a soft, weak, flexy metal. That's why it kills me that people think aluminum frames equal a stiffer ride when steel is much stiffer than aluminum. But since aluminum's also lighter, they can make the tubes larger to make the resulting frame as stiff as a steel frame while still keeping it lighter than the steel counterpart despite more material being used. I think a lot of people have that backwards.. hehe. If builders made aluminum frames with tubing as small as most steel frames, people would be saying "don't ride aluminum frames! they're too flexible and wobbly!" instead of saying they're stiff... but that's because the geometry of the tubing changed, not because the material is inherently "inferior" for street riding. SCIENCE!

Also, I hate the Americanized "aluminum" thing. Why did we change it from "aluminium" anyway? Lousy Yanks..

Natron

Got your back on this one, yep.

The catch being that steel frames are not necessarily more dent resistant than aluminum frames... they just put more aluminum in a frame to make it stiff/strong enough to counter its weaknesses and, tada, you have a strong, stiff frame once again. No one's making aluminum and steel frames exactly the same with identical tubing properties. If so... steel frames would then be waaaay more dent resistant.

bbattle

Wait till ryanf discovers the SS/FG forum.

idcruiserman

I'll let you know once I pick up a Van Dessel I've had my eye on. (on which I've had my eye for the grammar police).

Sincitycycler

And Canadians suck at tipping...

doofo

srsly dude

srsly

everyone knows pop cans make better bikes than exhaust pipes

sers

my current beater follows the "cheap carbon, even cheaper aluminum" model. first and foremost, it fits me. i can honestly say, that steel doesn't make an effective difference vs an alu compact with a carbon fork given the rough patch and fill streets that i storm over every day. from skid stops to curb hops & drops it's a jungle and as far as frames go, if it doesn't explode i'm happy

In Absentia

**** all of that. The only frames worth riding are synthetic diamond. Extremely stiff and nearly indestructible.

tbrtbx

No, man. Bamboo all the way...

https://uashome.alaska.edu/~jsewk1/ph...booBicycle.jpg

LóFarkas

Yeah, right... Because I was the one who brought up crack'n'fail... the bikes that cracked at the welds because the company insisted on sanding the welds to make them look smoother. Hmmm.
If you can't understand the fact that an Al frame is stronger and more dent resistant than a steel frame of the same weight and quality, then there's no point arguing. Case closed.

andre nickatina

I've always ridden steel, test rode a few aluminum fixies here and there and they're not bad. Especially appealing is how light they feel when I pick them up, but out of the 2 I've ridden, 1 had 24 back / 20 front spokes, and the other had some carbon parts on it, so that probably figures into it too.

I don't think I'd mind riding / owning a Pista Concept frame, though.

me thinkst

just prove it to me.

Here's interesting data: https://www.bobbrowncycles.com/eng.htm

note that he is comparing average bicycle tubing, and note how the 300g steel beats the 309g aluminum when it comes to deflection. (i'm no rocket scientist but methinks we can equate deflection with deformation - i.e. denting)


now, he mentions in his article that you could feasibly build a steel frame lighter than an aluminum frame, and that the steel frame would be more prone to buckling or denting (but still less likely to crack)- but that's not what we're arguing here. you made this broad, sweeping generalization that steel frames dent easier than aluminum ones, and that is just untrue unless you twist it into something that you just don't see in reality. there is no apples to apples comparison.

if you say 'average steel frame', well my friend, average steel is 4130 and/or chromo, and that $hit is gonna be stronger & dent resistant than any aluminum frame you can find, period.
you can say 'reynolds 853 dents easily', and i can find you a boatload of aluminum tubesets that can be dinged with a sneeze. (insert ellsworth, santa cruz)
there was a guy once on mtbr complaining that he laid his Truth down in the grass and it dented the toptube...

how is it you claim you can make a softer metal stronger than a stronger metal?

i saw a zirconia frame once, it was too small to ride though...

Snordalisk

Next time you see an aluminum bike with a really fat downtube, give it a good squeeze in the center, like you're feeling tire pressure.

Watch it flex.

Try to do the same with a steel frame.