Calling 3rensho experts-
 

I Recently got a frame from a LBS in japan, i payed about 450 american for this frame:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9311817...7600972797830/

Couple days later my friend and i took it to kalavinka to get a front brake hole drilled (sorry?) and while we were there a keirin rider tomity told us it was a very historic frame. All i know so far is that 3rensho and this other company- Cherubim cycles? in the early stages of 3rensho teamed up and made frames, thats why this one doesnt have the 3rensho logo on the front and seat tube.

Originally i had planned on grabbing some 3rensho factory decals and repainting it but at this point it would probably be disgracing the bikes heritage. Can anyone advise me as far as restoration/ getting ahold of a cherubim decal to bring the frame back to life? As it is now the frame has many scratches and in some places exposed metal so for the integrity of the frame something has to be done either way i believe.

Thanks in advance

also any more information about the history of this frame, would help immensely

edit: also those keirin race stickers on it- i don't believe the bike has ever been in a race. Those stickers were a present to the bike.

Just wax the frame and it'll keep rust at bay. DO NOT DRILL IT! Buy another fork if you must. Leave the stock paint...I have kept my 30 year old Italian from rusting where the paint has chipped just by disassembling once a year and waxing it really well.

Looks to be too late :(

yes...so sad...why don't these folks just buy a damned fork? ARG!!! That fork was not designed to deal with the stresses of a brake.

rad, leave it be and keep it well protected.

Another one bites the dust.

pretty sure kalavinka would have said something about that.

for the reccord though, the fork was drilled before we knew it what it was, either way at least this bikes getting used.

wax, just regular paraffin wax? what about something like model paint? or would that stick out more than a scratch.

thanks for the help.

When you build it and grab a handful of brake and the fork flexes like silly putty and the tire smacks the down tube remember what I said. There is no real need other than cosmetically for touch up paint. I would have it matched at a auto parts paint shop and buy a small amount if it needs it. Seriously, if you are going to ride it with a brake spend the dough on a fork designed for a brake...nice road forks even steel ones are on Ebay all the time. Have it painted to match or get chrome. If you have it painted you can kill two birds with one stone and get some touch up.

Maybe, but then they did put a drill to a 3Rensho... I can see how the big 3Rensho sticker may have caused some confusion.... Still, it's your bike and as long as you're happy. I still second what stewardmike says though. The rounder fork of the track bike isn't designed for the forward-rear flex due to a brake like a road fork is.

My guess is he's thinking of a car wax. Model paint or auto touch up paint, unless you're *very* lucky in the match will stick out like a sore thumb. I forget who said it best on the forum, something like "Once you find paint to match, it won't match".

I'll look into the touchup paint thanks for the advice.
I'm a little unclear what you're saying though. This fork isn't steel. It's NJS certified doesn't that mean the whole bike is steel?. How will a new fork be different?

Usually a fork made for a brake has a stiffened crown area, usually twice to three times as thick as a track fork, the legs are also typically bladed for the added frontal flexing the brake will induce. I'm just saying the fork you have now was never designed to be drilled and braked. A road fork with the brake boss in the crown will absolutely perform better hands down without doubt. You can keep the 3Rensho fork but USE the road fork.

Any brands you'd reccomend fork-wise? and what is the worst case scenario? I brake hard fork falls under itself? The way i run my front break it really doesn't bite hard. Even if i pull as hard as i can it wouldn't lock the wheel, i run it lose enough to compliment an emergency skid enough so i could stop quickly. Not sure if that affects what you're saying though.

Haha that's true, although these guys were terribly nice- and 3rensho is out of the picture as far as competition goes. The builders honestly seem like people who love bikes and want other people to love bikes as much as they do and are generally happy to do what they can to aid that. I'm pretty sure it was the head builder who drilled it, and no one said anything about flex issues- i'll keep it in mind though and keep an eye out for a new fork.

Ask Sashae, he has a purple one and was told the history by Yamaguchi on 3Rensho.

Take it to Makino as he was the other Master builder with yamaguchi and still at the old 3rensho shopin Abinko.

Info on Sashae's frame:

1978 3Rensho 'Track Modulo' built by Yamaguchi in the first year of 3Rensho's operation. Tange long-point lugs, Ishiwata 019 tubing, Cinelli fastback stays and fork crown, Nikko bottom bracket. This was the top of the line frame built by 3Rensho that year, prior to the name change from Cherubim Cycles to Cyclone, then to 3Rensho. Beautiful frame in the mold of 1960s Cinellis

S/F,
CEYA!

you should go ask Cherubim about the stickers and such. The shop is in Machida if I'm not mistaken.

As for drilling the fork. Too bad perhaps... but I think it is made up for by the fact that the bike will be ridden! I doubt Tanabe-san would tell a customer what not to do with their frame (for style/historical reasons. For safety, perhaps)

Speaking of which, I have a drilled/destroyed keirin frame....I hardly use the front brake, but when I do I haven't noticed any undue flex. The fork legs are round. I've got another frame with aero/oval fork legs but it is as yet untouched by the drill. Unfortunately since the legs are oval it can't work with the alternative to drilling--a clamp set up that Kalavinka also offers. Other use back plates for rear brakes, but I'd much rather have a front brake on the road than a rear one.

As far as forks I would recommend...pick up a 1" steel fork off of some 80's road bike on Craigslist or just buy a Surly Pacer fork...there are others. Anything drilled for a brake will work. My Casati's tire is perilously close to the down tube as it sits, when I hit a decent expansion joint on pavement sometimes it leaves a little rubber on the DT. That's close folks. A brake will stress the legs of the fork just south of the crown, often seperating the two or cracking the leg at the crown end. A road fork, even a crowned one like on a KHS has the steer tube welded through the crown and often (most of the time) it's double tubed at the point where it is drilled and faced for a brake, thus giving it three tubes inside of each other. That's reinforcement. Track forks not unlike my own are made to keep weight low, assumed since they are not drilled there will be no braking forces applied to the crown area, and made to tolerate only the weight of the rider and their pedaling forces.

Do as you wish but it's cheaper to blow $100 on an Ebay fork than $1000 on new front teeth when the fork collapses and you eat sidewalk.

This was my issue, in a split second emergency (car door, car pulling out someone not watching) my reaction is ,skid, brake.

i feel bad about the drilling but i honestly wouldn't feel safe riding in the city, dipping traffic, without it. call me what you will. i didnt know of the fork issue or obviously i wouldn't have drilled.

Thanks for more info on the bike as well, we called cherubim they said good luck finding a decal, they don't have any and don't know anyone who would, makino also does not know how to get the decals. so it looks like ill just keep the frame green (no biggie).

Funny thing about the clamp set up- kalavinka told us that drilling would be the better alternative, saftey wise. so that was the reason we went with it.

thanks again for all the great info

Wow, that's really depressing.

3Rensho was originally started as an offshoot of Cherubim, Yoshi Konno's brother Hiroshi's shop. Yoshi Konno was going to sell semi-custom "Cherubim Cycles" frames from his own shop, but Hiroshi was unable to provide enough volume so Yoshi Konno (along with Yamaguchi, a mystery Panasonic custom shop builder and Makino) started making frames under the "Cyclone" name. Cyclone was a Suntour trademark, so the shop soon switched to 3Rensho. The very, very earliest 3Renshos (1978-80 or so) were stickered both with the Cherubim Cycles shop logo, as well as the 3Rensho logos.

So, you've drilled a really, really really rare frame. Yours appears later than mine, but without seeing better detail of the lugs it's hard to tell exactly when. It's very unfortunate that you drilled that frame.

This one was built by Yamaguchi. Unsure of yours.

http://boxwood.subtle.org/se/albums/...3r01.sized.jpg

http://boxwood.subtle.org/se/albums/...3r02.sized.jpg

http://boxwood.subtle.org/se/albums/...3r08.sized.jpg

Braking is going to slow you down and not completely stop you. Even though front brake provides 75% of your braking power.

Skid , brake may not be your reaction. It depends on the situation at the time. Skipping and maintaing control will be closer.

yeah, u just should have ask Tanabe san for an extra fork with hole.

S/F,
CEYA!

You would think Kalavinka would know whether it:s safe or not......

......you paid 450 for it and its your frame. You want to ride it hard, and kalavinka gave it the all clear, so it sounds good to me.
Beautiful frame, Sashae! Do you have built up pics, or is this one to sell?

Although it's no longer original, it's still a very well made frame that still has a rich history. Build it to suit you (to an extent), and enjoy the **** out of it.

Thanks, i plan to.. kinda feeling the dirt-eye for drilling it.. oh well- kalavinka is building a wheelset up should be ready in a week then im hitting the streets.

.....did you go for those gold Phil Woods that one of the guys brought back from his recent US trip??

Totally gorgeous but I couldn't justify the (eminently reasonable) price.
And I am very happy with the wheelset Yagi-san built for me.

If Yoshi Konno or Yamaguchi came up to you and said "Dude I'm so bummed you drilled a hole into a fork I made 20 years ago"... then you might have a reason to feel bad.

haha thanks, thats pretty true makes me feel a little better.


i stuck with dura-ace, didn't wanna spring for the phil woods. which one is Yagi-san ? Taller with long hair? i haven't got any of their names but my friend and i have been in there several times this week and they've been incredibly nice each time

Yagi is with the tall guy with long hair and the Vivalo out front. The smaller guy's name I don't recall but he is the one who got the hubs and he also builds wheels. There is someone new too right?

If I were a framebuilder I would probably feel a slight tinge of sadness at the drilling that would quickly be overwhelmed by pride in knowing one of my frames was still being ridden and appreciated. Especially given how many frames that ended up rusted out, dented, junked, or crashed to oblivion.

Ride on!! :)