Momentum

It's pretty common in track racing. Tracks are smopth so there's much less chance of the chain jumping off than there would be on the street. A tight chain puts pressure on the bearings in the hub and BB. Track racers are aiming for the most efficient machine possible as they want to go fast. Running a slacker chain lowers resistance in the bearings and so is one less thing to slow you down.

moki

this thread is sooooo Superfuture.

nateintokyo

njs---set of leveling standards, skill standards for the builders. but come on, most are hand produced. it is inevitable that some framebuilders are better than others (and that some develop reputations for being better than others, whether justified or coincidental).

bbattle

This Bridgestone looks nice

deathhare

good thread.

Transfixed06

< member

bexley

I hate making threads, so this is the best or most recent I found to fit this into.

I hear nothing but good things about the defunct Katakura Silk make, but I've got a question about a specific frame. Some of you probably know the one I'm talking about.

Besides the appearance, how does this compare to the lugged frames that I'm assuming Katakura also made? Does it indicate a certain level/quality for a frame or the kind/quality of tubing, or is it pretty much meaningless? I probably wouldn't be asking this if it wasn't for the preference Japanese builders seem to have for lugs. On top of that, it's old; I'm no Keirin expert, but weren't lugs even more the standard in the past? I have pretty much no idea of Keirin regulations (ie. the rules about how a frame is to be built) or whether that plays into an answer to my query. TIA.

goldenskeletons

is that half-lugged/half filet brazed? how old do you think that frame is?

bexley

I should've linked to the photo group: https://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p...uarsilkjuly26/

No lugs to be seen. I think the fork and headbadge show this thing to be quite old, but what do I know.

goldenskeletons

ok, it looked like it had a seat lug, but its just chips by the seat stay caps.

i know peloton does lugged frames as well as fillet brazed frames and both types are njs certified. there's pros 'n cons of each, but fillet brazing is more commonly found in frames with oversized tubing and odd geometries rather than finding or making custom lugs to accommodate.

my frame is Kasei 4130-R oversized tubing and the angles are 76/76. or something really close to that.


fillet brazing is also real purdy.

bexley

Ah, maybe that makes sense of what look to be slightly irregular angles on the ST and HT? There isn't a good photo from which to really judge the angles, but that ST looks slack.

....waiting for the folks in Japan to wake up.

westokyo

Japan folk here sipping on a Georgia coffee but computer at work won't allow me to see photobucket images

bexley

You got me to look up Georgia coffee. Scary stuff. Every country should have a contingent of Italians to keep coffee in check--and pizza. Those things have undergone some creepy transformations in places that don't know what they're supposed to taste like.

Anyway, I overcame my laziness and hosted the pic elsewhere (even though you're probably at home by now):

parkerlewis

Yes but there are waiting lists, regional biases, price tags, and personal opinions involved. In the last 10 years more Keirin pros rode Bridgestone, ViValo, and Panasonic frames that the rest combined (almost!).

Also JR races, High School races etc.. in Japan have a different set of geometry rules entirely, compared with those enforced in Keirin. I can get the rules from Kusaka San next time I am in Kobe. Amateur rules are pretty much Olympic rules, as far as I know....carbon wheels/frames etc...

bexley

Thanks for the interesting-yet-scattered information, but none of it is a response to anything.

I know Tomassini's are the flavour-of-the-week and all, but where's this forum's usual Keirin obsession when I need it?

Dave Hickey

While we are discussing Keirin frames, can someone tell me why the frame names are in english? Keirin is a homegown Japanese product.. Just curious..... Why not Japanese script? Even the rider name is written in English on one of mine

As for the list, I own 2 Panasonics so I'm partial

andre nickatina

I always wondered that myself.

bexley

I got a sliver of insight into Japan's foreign-culture-complex while I studied jazz and the onset of its immense popularity in that country.

Notwithstanding the typical characterization of Asian cultures' fascination with the West, it was pretty hard to wrap my head around what went on in Japan and its national/cultural psyche from Hirohito till now. I tell ya, that place is a case study for almost everything there is to study.

(Oh, the point of my attempted knowledge-drop: using non-Japanese text in Japanese affairs is just one of many things that's a little confusing about that country.)

parkerlewis

Kanji is not 'cool' in Japan. Rommaji (english characters) are cool. It shows that your business is kind of worldly or educated or cool or something....All businesses use Rommaji, apart from smaller ramen shops and the like.....
Magazines also try to drop in buzz english words as much as possible, such as 'try' 'check' 'get' 'test' 'power' etc.....

zelah

japan is such a weird place

EMT

Kalavinka has a kanji option.

Is it really the case that kanji is perceived as `not cool'? I would say that using English characters indicates something about the scope or international nature of your business ... (in the context of company names)

frankie gee

not as cool as english letters...

seriously everything that is to be marketed here that isn't purely japanese in origin is pretty much in english letters... magazines, clothing companies, you name it.

it's the other side of the coin that we all want to have the kanji... they want to be like us and we want to be like them. or something to that effect.

parkerlewis

Watanabe is just a name.
So is Nagasawa (means something like long field/marsh),
Katakura means something odd too (kura might be like a storage building/hut where you keep rice etc..) kata is too obscure for me to explain.
Level is short for Le Velo, apparently.
Samson is a biblical character reference....I think he was strong or something.
Vivalo is a mix of VIVA and VELO.
Bridgestones original owners name was Ishibashi, which means stone bridge, flipped the words become bridge stone. Kalavinka is apparently something to do with the art of a beautiful voice, voice like a bird or something.
Bomber is english.
Giro- see death hares post below...
Vogue french (means a prevailing fashion),
Levant - not japanese - possibly means 'where the sun rises' or 'where the land rises from the sea'
3Rensho means literally Three consecutive/successive victories in japanese.
Makino is a Japanese family name.
Baramon is apparently a character from an old Japanese story? The face on the headbadge is apparently baramon.
Cherubim is not Japanese...means some winged guardian spirits from the old testament.
Kiyo Miyazawa is a Japanese name
Maeda is a Japanese name.
Nambei - strangely I think this means south america, in Japanese kanji.
Ohtaki - Means big waterfall, in Japanese. but is a family name.
Peloton - no need for explaining..
Presto - Italian, for fast pace. Musical term, usually.
Procyon - Bright star in the constellation, Canis Minor
Reminton - English I assume. Just a name?
Umezawa - Ume is plum, and Sawa/Zawa is a marsh/field or similar. Family name.
Uno - Italian/Spanish for one.
Yanagisawa - Yanagi is a type of tree, Sawa/Zawa is a marsh/field or similar. Family name.
Venus - Goddess of femininity and love, or maybe just the planet. Not sure.
Shimazaki - shima means island, saki/zaki means promontory....japanese family name.
Stratos - greek...can someone fill me in?

I will fill in the rest later...

parkerlewis

EMT....yes that too, but even small Japan only companies use English whenever possible.
I do not mean it is particularly uncool, just that it does not look particularly cool to Japanese people as it does
for many westerners, unless it is written in beautiful shodo style. Then everybody gets giddy for kanji.
I really love those Kalavinka frames with the kanji on the bottom of the down tube.

deathhare

Im pretty sure the Giro name is in reference to the Giro d'Italia.
Of course its not a track race but it just makes sense. Especially with the other Italian language used on the frames.

As for English used everywhere in Japan. Its just fashion. It happens in America too. People like the exotic look of foreign languages. French or Italian and others can be seen used in America for the same reasons. Of course, not as much as English is put up in Japan.

edit for the unknowing: Giro_d'Italia