If I got my specs right Sugino bb's are 109mm and give a chainline of 42.5mm for a Sugino 75 crank. So if using a Philwood instead, would a 111mm spindle give a 43.5mm chainline and a 113 give a 44.5?

yes, but a few things. First, you need to make sure you get ISO taper (phil calls this campy taper, same thing), which they don't make in 113 if the list I'm looking at is right. Also, make sure you get a symmetrical spindle rather than an asymmetric setup. Finally, chainline with phils isn't a huge issue as you can adjust it about 5mm by screwing the cups in and out.

Thanks for the reply. I'm ending up with a 44.73 (according to Sheldon) rear chainline with my formula hub and white industries freewheel. So it sounds like I need the Philwood Campy 110.5 symetrical bb which I would then adjust out 2ish mm to match my rear chainline--sound right?

Uh, Sugino 75s use JIS not ISO. And Phil Wood has a 108.5 JIS specifically for Sugino 75s.

At least that is what I thought, and in fact spoke to someone at my LBS yesterday about this and he said the same.

here comes the huge taper argument...

I think someone posted a response from Sugino saying the 75s are indeed ISO?

Sheldon came up with those numbers through some overzealous measuring, but yeah, you will want a slightly wider than 42mm chainline for a WI freewheel, 45 is a good number but remember that everything from frame alignment to BB shell facing to dropout paint to spindle-crank interface squirm affects chainline, so .73mm or .27mm isn't worth wringing your hands over. I'd go with the 110.5 as you can also adjust it back toward 42mm for other applications.

Any reason why you're using 75's for this? I'd go with RD's, way cheaper, just as good, and you can use 130 rings. The whole rig would cost you less than the phil BB.

Yeah, and here is one thread on this argument.

And an older one.

Even older thread.

Per the sugino web site, the 75's are ISO: https://www.suginoltd.co.jp/track_e.html

I don't have experience to back this up, but I would use only their BB or an adjustable (phil, miche) with 75's. Actually, I would never buy 75's, but that's just me.

Which means, I was wrong and so was my LBS.

Also, the sum total of the other threads and my experiences with other sugino stuff is that their tapers aren't _quite_ the same as Shimano or Campy versions of the same. I mean, it's a 2* taper, the trig is left as an exercise for the student but it doesn't take very much to change how far in the crank is going to sit.

Well, I think 144mm looks cool. And the Sugino Zen ring looks really cool! I have a 22t freewheel, so I can put the 55t Zen ring up front and look like I'm the strongest man in the world but actually only have about 68 gear inches to push.

OK, fire it up if that's what you're into. Not what I would do but I'm cheap and boring. Is this a SS road build?

a 22t granny gear will stick out like a teenage mutant ninja turtle in a vat of cream cheese.

size that crap down!

Perhaps, but with the chain wrap on the 22 and the 55 and a phil bb, the whole drive train will last a thousand years. And, on a 63cm frame it won't look that out of place.

Yes. It's a Capo, which comes with very low grade components but a great track frame in my size (63cm). Of course if I were a real man I would just make it fixed and all the chainline issues would dissappear, but I like brakes and being able to freewheel when I'm tired. I know I'd get stronger faster with continuous pedaling, but I seem to be pretty tired by the end of my rides anyway. I like the Sugino 75 because of the roundness thing. It is made to tighter specs than the RD's so it will turn more evenly.

I have RD's they are round as hell, and that's with the stock ring, not even something nice like a TA. Runout tolerance on cranks has gotten a lot tighter than it used to be, and chainrings are better than they've ever been. Also, 55x22 may be more gear than a single normal track chain can handle. No biggie, you can join two, but it may be a problem.

I appreciate your post. I will consider the RD and the chain issue is definitely something I had not thought of! Maybe I'll just save my 22 for XC SS rig. I did a mountain climb on it this Summer where I was crying with my 19:34.

I'm not entirely sure this will be a problem, I do like the idea of a huge ring/cog setup on a huge bike, but I'm just pointing out that you're going to run into some unexpected problems. You probably won't have chainstay clearance issues since you're going outboard a little and it's a track frame, but you might. You also only really have one option for changing a component to mess with gearing, but that's not a huge deal with SS as it's not like you have to worry about skid patches.

I have an RD w/ 48t chainring, and it's very eccentric / uneven - there is a noticable jump as the chain goes around. I have had several more experienced people look at it, and they told me that that's definitely the problem, and that it's somewhat common w/ the RDs. Maybe the newer ones are a little better, but I'm definitely not using an RD on my next build. My gf has one with a slightly smaller chainring and hers is Ok.

What is your RD set stamped on the back? The RD2's (stamped RD2R on the right) I've seen have been very good. The older ones may be a little more suspect.