so i am thinking about picking up either a de bernardi or a bareknuckle wondering what peoples take on butted or non butted frames are and what are the pros and cons of both thanks

there are a lot of buget-ish frames that are straight gauge (non-butted). butted is supposed to add lightness without sacrificing strength. This is assuming the same tubing is involved, more or less. I ride double butted, but I'm not savvy enough to feel the difference. Others will have different opinions.

You do realize that both of these frames are made out of double-butted chromoly, right? The Bareknuckle is Deddaciai and the De Bernardi is Columbus Thron.

Having a butted tubeset is always a pro. They'll end up being stronger and generally lighter.

yeah i just realized they were both butted and that i am an idiot but thanks for the input

I have a Bareknuckle and its nice.
Never refer to yourself as an idiot. There are plenty of other people on this forum who will do that job for you.

I wasn't trying to belittle you, just make your decision easier.

I think what it comes down to with these frames is:

1. Lugged vs. Tigged
2. Threaded vs. Threadless

Those are basically aesthetic questions. Personally, I'd take the De Bernardi because I hate change and love nothing more than a lugged frameset with a threaded fork.

Not always. It only makes it stronger if you are talking about the type of stress put on the bike while it's actually being ridden. If you have a frame that you expect to get hit in the middle of the tubes the butting will make dents and eventual failure more likely. Therefore for a thinner tubed mtb frame or maybe one that's locked up butting may not be a pro.


Threaded threadless is not an aesthetics question. Threadless offers many advantages while threaded offers only aesthetics and a different adjustment method.

While in theory lugged vs tigged is mainly aesthetic in practice, as exemplified by these two bikes, lugs limit you to outdated thin tube shapes that are heavier or flexier then modert manipulated and OS ones.

for dutret, threadless is a ethical imperative

Dutret, I remain unconvinced. With a threadless set-up, it seems that you can buy one stem and have many different possible vertical adjustments. With a threadless set-up, you have to buy a new stem if you want to go higher (unless you had the foresight to leave yourself some tube to work with).

Regarding the OS tubes vs. "regular" tubes... you're probably right. But frankly, I'd rather ride a bike that looks nice. Even if it does happen to be a couple hundred grams heavier.

pretty much everyone leaves room to work with. To not do so is incredibly short sighted. Most of the adjustment in a threaded system comes at the expense of stifness anyway. Not great on most bikes but making it near useless on any sort of ss setup.

If you really want instant adjustability the NVO system is much more easily adjustable than any threaded setup and leaves you with most of the advantages of threadless.

More importantly though the advantages of threadless go far beyond adjustment without losing stiffness. There are many other reasons(which have been covered many times) to go with threadless while the ONLY practical reason to pick threaded is for adjustability and even that goes away if you're not an idiot who cuts his steerer tube too far.

The only situation where aesthetics is the most important difference is the one were the rider cares more about how his bike looks than how it works.

Dutret, you race track. The stiffness benefits of threadless makes sense for you.

Most other people here are more concerned if their sister's pants are too tight to pedal down to the local record store/coffee shop/food coop/thrift store/bar than if the front end of their bike is stiff or adjustable enough.

Threaded>Threadless

It's just prettier.

Grant Peterson...I didn't realize that you hung out here!

Excuse me while I go lace up some 650B's, try to get Nitto to make an even longer stem and make even heavier bike frames.

You know what would make a great frame-building material? Wool.

Or beards!

light vs. heavy

Wool made from beards?

If you're a rider who's genuinely committed to function vs fashion, you'll train your beard to grow wool. Then you can harvest it once a month and knit a jersey out of it.

As I said if you care more about how youre bike looks than how it rides then aesthetics may outweigh functionality. However that doesn't mean that threaded vs threadless is just an aesthetic difference.

The benefits of threadless go far beyond stiffness anyway.

And for me. Only he tries to evangelize more often than I do

I ride vintage bikes so threaded is the only way to go... the threadless would look pretty odd on my two 55's, my '62, and '73 road bikes.

Quills stems are far prettier and function quite well for the road riding I do (commuting and touring) while my all but one of my mountain bikes are threadless.

Wrong.