Leader frames 720 TR For Fixie
 

So I checked out ebay for a frame, I've been looking for a year, and found this

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-720TR-MESSEN...QQcmdZViewItem

I was about to but a Sparton frame but after reading pogmahones review I reconsidered. This will be my first build so I'm trying to avoid any extra hassle I can. I've been reading up on the forums about Leader and customer relations sound terrible, but maybe they've changed.

All measurements seem in order, I'm not too keen on having to order the fork seperately but has to be done.

Anyone got any recent complaints, praise, advice??

Or anyone got a nice 56cm track frame for me?

wow! possibly the dumbest track ends ever.
how are you supposed to tension your chain with those things when there's a hub in the way.
and similarly, how are you supposed to slacken the chain to derail it when you can't get at the tensioner?

osmosis?

Yeah, I agree about the dumb trackends.

friend's got one, i've ridden it. personally if i was going to do aluminum i'd ride something else, but i'm a steel guy so there's your answer.

Those are nasty. Id buy the one from Mexico or whereever first. Steel.

Hard to go wrong for $150. Weren't these $200 just a month ago?

...actually, I remember the $200 or $250 Leader frame having different trackends--definately not whatever is on this one. It was black and also called the Messenger; maybe this one is the new model.

Yeah, wow. That's just monstrously stupid.

It's like Leader not only doesn't care about their customers, they actively hate them.

I would too, if they bought something so foolish.

Could that kludge be removed, and a regular chain tug be used? Then it might be useable... OP-- bikeisland.com is selling the Mercier Kilo frame (minus fork, which is too bad) for about the same price, if you wanted a budget steel frame.

Useful Information
 

Some of you are off the mark. 720TR frame in not intended for Track racing. This is a commuter fixie road geometry frame that does not require any changes to the dropouts. Even though the dropouts are made of solid Aluminum. You adjust the dropout chain tensioners once and that is it. They are also removable in case you want to use any other type of tensioner. This is our first fixie messenger style single speed road bike. The other $200 frame you mention is not made by us. We do make a 735TR model specific for track racing.

All bike companies will have negative information on these forums. Most is always the dark stuff or people who have never seen or rode the bike before. If you really want to read the good stuff here are some useful links:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...me=STRK:ME:UFS

Or

http://www.roadbikereview.com/mfr/le...2_2493crx.aspx

Anyway it is nice to hear your interest in our product. You will not be disappointed. What ever you feel about the frame after your purchase please keep us informed on this forum.

We do care about all our customers and every bike we sell. Our customers care so much about us they even write back:

http://www.leaderbikestore.com/custo...stimonials.cfm

Squag if you need a fork you can order it with the frame here: www.leaderbikestrore.com

Brian

Once set (somehow) to take up chain slack, those tensioners make it impossible to install and remove the wheel without breaking the chain. It's best if removed entirely and not deal with them.

I have a Leader 735 TT that i use as a fixed gear... and i like it.

Brian,

Thanks for chiming in. More companies should.

chain tentioner
 

Dear roadfix,

These are the same tensioners we have used on over 2,000 time trial 780tt, 735tt, and 730tt frames. Sorry but we have never had any problems and do not expect any in the future. We did make them removable in case anyone wants to use the external mounted model but we doubt it will be necessary.

Brian

OK, fair enough. Perhaps I'm missing something here. How are you able to loosen the axle nuts and slide the wheel forward to derail the chain in order to remove the wheel? I just cannot see that happening with those tensioners in place unless you remove the axlenuts completely and are somehow able to turn those tensioners in by hand...??
That particular frame should be sold without the tensioners in place. :)

That's because those bikes have derailleurs. So there's naturally chain slack in the system.
pull on the derailleur cage, loosen the tension on the chain and pop off the wheel.


So, now try to do that without a derailleur and then you'll agree that your dropout design is ********.

Two options
 

We made these bolts easy to screw in and out like butter. Also if you are using say a Sram single speed chain there will be no reason since the chain has the 2 Piece Snap-Lock.

Again if it is an inconvinience you can use external tensioners by removing the ones on the frame.

Brian

I'm sure these 'tensioners' do what they're supposed to do on derailleured bikes where you can pull the wheel rearward for a quick removal, and a very clever design at that. But on a fixed gear with no chain slack, this makes absolutely no sense. I realize they're completely removable but I think they should simply be removed from your web photos, including its description to avoid confusion as to why they're there in the first place as most fixed gear riders will agree that they're simply not practical.

Those track ends (minus the tensioner) look almost exactly like the ones on my jamie roy, and I never use chain tugs. I would just pull the bolts and not worry about it.

That frame looks pretty decent for the price. If I really needed a frame, I would consider it (though I like the look of the 735tr better).

That's a sweet frame...are the decals under a clearcoat?
If that price included a fork, I'd be all in..

In my experience, disconnecting a Master-Link while the chain is under [proper] tension is almost impossible. Your tensioners may work well for derailer bikes, but not for SS/FG. It's great that they screw out, but they shouldn't be there in the first place. We appreciate your input, but you should trust the collected wisdom of the people on this board, some of whom are very knowledgeable, accomplished cyclists...whose bread-and-butter are fixed drivetrain bikes. (Note, I'm not necessarily including myself in that category.)

Are the welds that nasty on other bikes? The ends look like they're stuck on with chewing gum.

yeah, they're pretty nasty...

I am at your service
 

I think I know where this is going. Anyway we are doing a great service to the cycling community. We have been since 1999. I find the welds quite beautiful like a stack of dimes. I like to include a large blow up of the welds just to annoy the pundits.

Again the set screws are easy to loosen and provide enough slack to remove the chain.

I will now pull out of this discussion because I feel it is heading into some kind of dark place. If anyone has a question please e-mail us at contact@leaderbikeusa.com

Brian

so final verdict?? Sounds like I'd be better off just removing the tensioners, not too much hassle for my inexperienced hands.

bike island was good but dont ship outside US so I'll keep looking, I might even go for the leader frame.
It'd be great if it came without those decals though

Actually do I NEED a chain tensioner?

I've seen plenty of fixies here without them but the chain seems to be slack on all them

with an aluminum dropout, you should use one. it's a lot of stress on the metal without one.

i like it, i think it's a great looking bike for a very affordable price. nice roadish geometry for fixed gear street use. i wish my kilott used a damn 27.2 seatpost, man that would help me out. also, the internal headset style headtube will really make things easy and weatherproof for a street bike.

the graphics are tasteful and subtle and the colors are simple and look great. i really dig the aero tubing.

i'd like to ride one with a carbon fork, carbon seatpost, and 165mm cranks. and with the price you can get it on ebay, that's definitely doable. i am going to get myself into trouble buying too many bikes in the future if i have a nice job once i graduate.


I'd also like to commend Brian for responding with courtesy and helpful information in the face of so many uselessly negative comments. I doubt I'd keep so cool if someone was trashing my bike without even so much as seeing it in person.


that said, i'd probably opt for a end-style tensioner like a surly in order to add some ease to changing out the wheel. i see how the tension can be set once and not have to worry about it, but changing out a master link is way more work than simply slipping the chain off the cog.



one thing in an ebay listing that i found funny:
haha, what? so you can ride backwards? cmon, it takes a lot more than changing the seat tube angle to give a bike track-ready handling.


for the money, i think i'd rather have the 735tr with its beefy looking dropouts and sweet tight angles.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Leader-735TR-51c...QQcmdZViewItem

300 frame
40 headset
70 seatpost
40 cog lockring
150 fork (nashbar/performance)
150 cranks
100 seat
200 wheels tires
50 handlebars
50 stem
50 pedals
=
1200 track bike on par with pista concept or langster pro, custom built by you.

Please excuse me for being so blunt, but please do not insult our intelligence. Again, you do not have access to those screws because they are completely obscured by the axle nuts and locknuts. I am certain you already know this.

I think that Leader frame is decent at a decent price. Yes, get rid of those 'tensioner' screws as you will immediately find out how impractical they are upon mounting your wheel. If I were looking for another fixie frame, I'd consider buying this frame. I like the 27.2 seat tube also.....lots of options.

As far as using chain tugs (or tensioners), in general, a properly aligned and secured wheel will not require them.

maybe if people were being nicer about pointing out the design flaw there wouldn't be this ridiculous back and forth.

i don't like the tensioning adjustment but you can clearly see they shape the dropout to accept an accessory tensioner... it's nice to have it, and if you don't like it, the solution is a simple turn of the allen key away. sheesh. would you prefer it not be included at all? if so, get the track bike.

this is like a ten dollar fix, twenty at the most. it has nothing to do with the frame itself, and it's not a nonfunctional flaw it's just not as convenient as some people might insist on having.

try finding another frame of this quality and build spec that offers any sort of tension adjustment for this price. just try.

I'm thankful that leader bikes actually puts the effort forth to address this pile of clowns in this thread at all, and with composure... it's more than you'll find from most companies.

he's not insulting anyone's intelligence by saying the screws are easy to loosen, he's just got a different definition of easy than you.

they're two little bolts. they should mean absolutely NOTHING to you when faced with the decision to buy a bargain frame.