there's a difference between being a responsible moderator and acting like a jerk with a superiority complex. it's just plain obnoxious how much fun you seem to have locking threads, banning people, doling out infractions, and just generally issuing threats.

I think he RARELY does any of the things you listed.
Im a mod on another site and dont think its fun at all. Its annoying. I just do it to help out my friend that owns the site.

You're right, there are many contributing factors and only one of them is the behavior of the cyclist. Additionally, cyclists often receive the blame in an accident because the both the laws and those enforcing them are unfairly prejudiced against bikes.

Still, accident statistics show clearly that cyclist error is a factor (if not cause) of a large percentage of cyclist accidents/fatalities. While the statics may be flawed, they're all we have to go by and they indicate to me that WE are a big part of the problem.

I've modded before at a wholly unrelated site and I haven't seen anything that remotely approachs the things you've accused him of...

alright. i'm done. if people are going to argue about alleycat ethics and riding safety that's one thing, if you're just going to complain about moderators i don't see how this thread can recover. besides i have a paper to write. peace.

+1

I don't enjoy giving infractions or banning people. I don't think I've given more than 20 or so warning/infractions and only issued one temporary ban. Deathhare is right, moderating is a pain in the ass and I do it because I'm all BF all the time anyway and it's a valuable resource. If you had any idea how many stupid PMs we get about bickering forum members and how many complaints we get about the crap people post, you might be a little more understanding.

I do have fun locking stupid threads, I confess. I also enjoy being able to read deleted posts/threads, espcially the ones with naked girls on bikes. It's one of the few things that make being called a " jerk with a superiority complex" worth it.

I agree, I'll give fischer and paulv and chance to reply (lest I be acused of being unfair) and then I'll lock the thread.

Until then is open for cat pics i assume.

well, you certainly seem to enjoy making idle threats then. either way, this is pointless to discuss and is totally not what the thread was about in the first place.

Mihlbach and cc700 sealed it, anyway. Kudos.

christ on a cracker, that is amazing.

I dig the video, alleycats, etc, but I hope you don't mean this in the sense that messengers have a greater right to the street (I'm going to assume you didn't).

All the same, I would like to take this opportunity to state the following: messengers do not own a) the streets, b) alleycats, c) urban cycling culture d) fixed gear culture. Fixed gear, street races, and bike culture were here long before messenger culture became the pop-culture darling that it is today and real messengers felt they had something to defend. I have immense respect for the skill of many of these riders, but anyone who claims superiority or self-extolled street cred because they mess can kiss my ****ing ass. I know this is a volatile remark and a bit off-topic, but this thread is already full of piss and vinegar as it is, will probably be locked by the end of the day, and this is a point that bugs the hell out of me.

On page 8! LOLCANO! LOLERSKATES! ROFL-WAFFLES!

id pull cc700s quote of humancongereels statement

the original was horrible

no need for it to stay

Safety bobs.... I am quite certain there are more fatalities in sanctioned road races than in alleycats. Certainly there are more sanctioned races, and they tend to cover more miles, and draw more participants--- but they occur under ostensibly controlled conditions.

I have seen countless broken bones and bikes road racing. Most are caused by stupidity on the part of other participants. I would almost rather take my chances in traffic. It is safer. Seriously.

oh i should leave this alone, but.....

I am proud of what I do and I don't really care if i come off as a "holier than thou prick" (i think that's the diss that was thrown my way...).

When I saw "we own the streets" i am not refering to any greater right to any particular patch of pavement, but to an attitude that I find essential to my survival in traffic. I look at riding in traffic like swimming with ******** killer whales. It's my job to make sure i make it to my destination alive. None of these drivers or pedestrians are going to give me one inch of space that I don't demand from them. Therefore, i need to own the street. I own it, and take full responsibility for my life and my actions while I am moving from point A to point B. It's simple, but it's a permanent and perpetual awareness that comes with piercing traffic. thats it.

ok. trolls. have at it. psuedo-intellectual? high minded? arrogant? whatever. Go ride a bike and face your life. I do it every day and it makes me a better person.

END COMMUNICATION

hey, look, do i look like i invented the definition for 'working class'? go ask your econn 220 prof about 'that frymaster guy'. guaranteed he's never heard of me.

so... is the definition of 'working class' based on 19th century economic realities? yup. does that mean that, as western capitalism has changed and morphed, the clearcut divisions of class that were near and dear to smith and marx and ricardo have blurred? you betcha.

i think the big problem here is that we really tend to forget about the artisan class. skilled owner-operators who work either independently or in a common 'workhouse'. a strong artisan class is a *good* thing to have. they're stable, mobile and way less likely to exploit or be exploited.

so, are car mechanics working class if they own their tools and are paid piecemeal? no. they're artisans. now, this artisanship is tempered somewhat by the fact that there are components of the means of production that are owned by an external individual (hoists, compressors, the shop itself), but they are still artisans more than anything else.

and in situations where messengers own their own bikes and are paid by the job (and yes, i know the formula is a lot more complex than that, but the bottom line is that the majority of the messengers are paid by the ticket in some way or another) they, too, are artisans.

don't freak out about it. love it. you can still listen to bruce springsteen or oi! music or whatever and eat out of a tin lunchpail if you want to, but economically you've got more in common with the watchmaker than the coalminer.

No, you're cool by me. I assumed you didn't mean it in the way that pisses me off, and you didn't. You have my respect because you're on the streets every day.

hahaha, i love it.

i really want to start getting into road racing, and everyone i know that does both has told me they feel safer in alleycats.

i just meant that the discussion of monster track/alleycats/general bicycles-in-traffic insanity was actually pretty interesting and brought out some perspectives i hadn't thought about before, and that i didn't mean to derail it as much as i did.

Done.

who was it that started the thread about this subforum getting closed. i think they should be banned.

Wow, those guys are fast! I can't help but feel impressed by their abilities, even though part of me sees the foolishness of their bravados.


As for messengers being working class or not (ha, you thought I wasn't paying attention, huh?) : messengers are some of the poorest people I know. And staying poor in spite of working their asses off. I don't know if that fits the whatever definition of working class, but I kinda don't even care. I sympathize with messengers, and will always respect the hard, dangerous, honest and badly-paid job they do. As my grandfather would say, it's an honourable job.

Wow, I've never seen a rofl-waffle. That really rolls off the tounge. Or should I say lols off the tounge?